waldo Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 A lot of people knew they were lying months ago. I said as much when he did his budget projections dance weeks before the budget. But the PBO is a substantial confirmation of it. you appear to likee this PBO - Kevin Page... not so much hey! Is optimism... or pessimism... grounds for you/anyone to play the "liar card"? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Harper left them a surplus and they turn it into a huge deficit. And then lied about it. Edited April 20, 2016 by PIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Harper left them a surplus and they turn it into a huge deficit. And then lied about it. I predicted that they would when they took in so many members of the Ontario Liberal party. They are famous for doing that when they took over from the Tories years ago, and used it as an excuse for continuing deficits for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 I predicted that they would when they took in so many members of the Ontario Liberal party. They are famous for doing that when they took over from the Tories years ago, and used it as an excuse for continuing deficits for many years. Any government would be running deficits right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Any government would be running deficits right now. Would any government lie about it up front to give themselves a $5 billion cushion they could blame on the previous government? Would any government downplay expected growth to exaggerate the deficit by another $6 billion they could blame on "existing economic circumstances" to again try to pretend it wasn't at all their fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Harper left them a surplus The liar is gone. No need to cover for him anymore. Tories left $9.5 billion in approved funds untouched to avoid deficit during election year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Would any government lie about it up front to give themselves a $5 billion cushion they could blame on the previous government? Would any government downplay expected growth to exaggerate the deficit. Yeah neither of those things are something political parties in general would have a problem doing. Plus like I said before you don't know that they lied. We just know that forecasts available to the government were pessimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yeah neither of those things are something political parties in general would have a problem doing. But this one was going to be so different! It was going to a bastion of honesty and transparency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) But this one was going to be so different! It was going to a bastion of honesty and transparency! I never thought it would be all that different. Edited April 21, 2016 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 The deficits won't be as bad as predicted??? OH NO!! THAT'S TERRIBLE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 The deficits won't be as bad as predicted??? OH NO!! THAT'S TERRIBLE!!! They will be. Just as I predicted in October the deficit would be more like $30 billion than $10, and just as I predicted that the Liberals would lie and play accounting games to exaggerate the size of the imagined deficit when they took over, I have already stated that they will find more things to spend that money on. After all, now that they've established the deficit isn't their fault - even if by fraudulent accounting - they've got billions more they can spend for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Well, as we know from Morneau's 'fiscal update' the deficit is continuing to grow worse as the Liberals spend as frantically as they can on anything they can find to spend on. We now have an actual operating deficit for only the third time in 50 years. The last time was when all that incentive spending was done during the height of the recession, and before that, why it was when Justin's daddy was PM. Most of the money is NOT being spent on any sort of infrastructure program, but on expanded program spending. Which means there's no way to get back to a balanced budget except by either a large tax increase, or by cancelling all that extra spending. Where is all this spending going? Not on social transfers to the provinces: they’re actually projected to be slightly lower than the Conservatives had planned. And for all the hype, only a fraction — less than a third — is for infrastructure, even by the Liberals’ exceedingly loose definition of the word. The rest is current consumption: things like enhanced child benefits that, splendid policies though they are, are not the sorts of things you should pay for with borrowed funds. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-a-liberal-spending-spree-because-they-want-to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Welcome to ONT, Canada . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) Ask economists how they feel about these 'massive' deficits.   The debt to GDP ratio is sent to never exceed 32% even with the deficits. Edited November 3, 2016 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 23 hours ago, Smallc said: Ask economists how they feel about these 'massive' deficits.   The debt to GDP ratio is sent to never exceed 32% even with the deficits. Until it does.  If you are comfortable with spending 32% of your life income to service debt you have accumulated and then passing it on to future generations, just looking at debt to GDP is a good thing. Debt to GDP is just an indicator of the country's ability to service debt. It is not an excuse to borrow money you have no intention of paying back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 The government has always aimed for the target of 25% of GDP being held in debt. Â They haven't been there lately, but they're not that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 4 hours ago, Smallc said: The government has always aimed for the target of 25% of GDP being held in debt.  They haven't been there lately, but they're not that far. Sure they do. It hasn't been there in forty years and they are headed in the opposite direction.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 With these deficits, they're not really heading in any direction - they're just standing pat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Even if you believe their forecasts they are increasing federal debt 17% over the next fiver years. Combined provincial and federal debt sits at 1.3 trillion in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 And that level is completely sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 What level? The line supporting the previous numbers said they were very conservative and allowed for economic growth much lower than forecast. Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Wilber said: Even if you believe their forecasts they are increasing federal debt 17% over the next fiver years. Combined provincial and federal debt sits at 1.3 trillion in 2016. Not relevant.  Private sector debt is $2 trillion if we want to throw out big irrelevant numbers. Context is everything. Federal net debt level is 31%.  Not 80% like Germany. Not 100% like the US. Not 140% like Italy. Not 230% like Japan. It is manageable and it is exceedingly stupid to allow our infrastructure deficit to grow while interest rates are so low and the economy has slack.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, msj said: Not relevant.  Private sector debt is $2 trillion if we want to throw out big irrelevant numbers. Context is everything. Federal net debt level is 31%.  Not 80% like Germany. Not 100% like the US. Not 140% like Italy. Not 230% like Japan. It is manageable and it is exceedingly stupid to allow our infrastructure deficit to grow while interest rates are so low and the economy has slack.  The private sector usually pays off its debt. Governments carry it forever. The government is also increasing entitlement spending with money it doesn't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 15 minutes ago, Wilber said: The private sector usually pays off its debt. Governments carry it forever. The government is also increasing entitlement spending with money it doesn't have. People die; governments live forever. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, msj said: People die; governments live forever.  So does debt if you are a government but interest rates won't stay low forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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