Another Terrorist Attack in Canada

[Guest]

I know and I don't Christianity. I just wanted to see if those who blame Islam for everything would comment on why the morally deplorable in the West are primarily Christian. If the culture in the south could lead to racism, misogyny, homophobia, etc. with Christianity just playing a small roll then maybe the same is possible for Islam. Millions of Muslims in our midst don't seem to be problem, so maybe it's the culture in some ME nations that needs fixing. However, some are really stuck on the idea of Christians vs Muslims or White vs Brown. It's too bad.

I don't know of anyone who blames Islam for everything. When Islam is so far ahead of every other religion in the world in doing bad things it can seem that way, I guess.

I know millions of Muslims in our midst don't seem to be a problem. Look at that poor fellow in Glasgow.

I heard on the BBC today that the bomb in Lahore was somehow in response to the execution of a man who was executed for killing a politician who had tried to get the Pakistani blasphemy laws changed. That's pretty focused.

Edit> My first sentence sounds like a troll. It isn't. I just don't know any other way to put it.

Edited March 28, 2016 by bcsapper

[Guest]

I don't know of anyone who blames Islam for everything. When Islam is so far ahead of every other religion in the world in doing bad things it can seem that way, I guess.

I know millions of Muslims in our midst don't seem to be a problem. Look at that poor fellow in Glasgow.

I heard on the BBC today that the bomb in Lahore was somehow in response to the execution of a man who was executed for killing a politician who had tried to get the Pakistani blasphemy laws changed. That's pretty focused.

Edit> My first sentence sounds like a troll. It isn't. I just don't know any other way to put it.

Agreed, that religion is a problem and Islam is the worst. I am more opposed to religion and Islam than most. Just also opposed to hypocrisy and short sighted prejudice.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Agreed, that religion is a problem and Islam is the worst. I am more opposed to religion and Islam than most. Just also opposed to hypocrisy and short sighted prejudice.

Yeah, me too.

[SunnyWays]

I don't deny that religion is the mother load of bad ideas with Islam leading the pack. I don't deny that Jihadists and Islamists are currently the pinnacle of terror problems. But, why is that Christians tend to lead so many of the ugly categories, here in a stable, rich, comfortable part of the world? Should we blame Christianity? Or could there be something else going on?

You're getting there but still a ways to go. It just so happens that the vast majority of North Americans identify as Christians - Catholic or 25 shades of protestentism.....many of whom don't even go to Church. So is it any wonder that most perverts are "Christian? Most "homophobes" are Christian....etc, etc.? If you'd like to blame Christianity for that - go right ahead. But as I said, they are not running around with suicide vests killing any innocent who gets in the way. So to answer your question again - yes, there is something else going on - and it's called Islam perversion - the enabler/excuse that provides the rationale for that tiny, tiny minority of disenfranchised or just pi$$ed off Muslims to perpetrate their heinous actions. It's mind-boggling that you can't see the difference.

Edited March 28, 2016 by SunnyWays

[eyeball]

There is simply no comparing the danger of 'right wing' terrorists, even if they are terrorists, with that of Muslim terrorists.

Of course there is given they're both conservative.

[rotary]

Of course there is given they're both conservative.

Oh buddy, you hit the target there. Can't wait to see what kind of "humorous" responses that will generate.

[PIK]

And how many Muslim children and women were killed over the weekend by Christians compared to Christian women and children killed by Muslims?

[Guest]

And how many Muslim children and women were killed over the weekend by Christians compared to Christian women and children killed by Muslims?

Not Muslims. Conservatives.

[Guest]

Of course there is given they're both conservative.

Oh buddy, you hit the target there. Can't wait to see what kind of "humorous" responses that will generate.

News reports from Lahore did say that just prior to Yelling Allahu Akbar the suicide bomber was heard to say that Canada's deficit might be a tad too large, and sex education should be kept out of school until at least the 8th grade.

So you could be right...

[rotary]

And how many Muslim children and women were killed over the weekend by Christians compared to Christian women and children killed by Muslims?

One weekend does not a history make I'm afraid.

[Guest]

One weekend does not a history make I'm afraid.

I don't think it was a history question.

[Guest]

You're getting there but still a ways to go. It just so happens that the vast majority of North Americans identify as Christians - Catholic or 25 shades of protestentism.....many of whom don't even go to Church. So is it any wonder that most perverts are "Christian? Most "homophobes" are Christian....etc, etc.? If you'd like to blame Christianity for that - go right ahead. But as I said, they are not running around with suicide vests killing any innocent who gets in the way. So to answer your question again - yes, there is something else going on - and it's called Islam perversion - the enabler/excuse that provides the rationale for that tiny, tiny minority of disenfranchised or just pi$$ed off Muslims to perpetrate their heinous actions. It's mind-boggling that you can't see the difference.

So North American terrorists, homophobes, misogynists, racists are comprised of a higher percentage of Christians than the general US population. Does that mean Christianity leads to despicable acts and beliefs or could the culture of certain regions lead to both crime and greater and more fervent religious participation?

Religion certainly plays a role, as we know both Christianity and Islam have scriptures that tell them to kill non-believers, but it's not the primary cause. A few hundred years ago Christians were slaughtering heretics like it was going out of style. Now, not nearly as much. The religion still exists, but the culture was reformed.

Terrorism has no religion and terrorism spares no religion. Dysfunctional cultures, economic and political instability, political corruption, poverty, strife are all major contributors. Blaming a religion for the problem is like an NBA fan blaming the NFL for spousal abuse. Dysfunctional, violent, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, theocratic cultures need to be reformed with democratic, universal secular ethics, rights and freedoms. Those values can't be bombed or killed into a culture, it takes the support of grassroots, youth led efforts.

[Guest]

Forty people were murdered by a Muslim suicide bomber yesterday at a soccer stadium. 65+ were murdered today at a kids fair in Pakistan.

There is simply no comparing the danger of 'right wing' terrorists, even if they are terrorists, with that of Muslim terrorists.

Yes, we just had extremists kill innocent Muslims (mainly) in Pakistan and Iraq. We have two Christian presidential hopefuls in the US vowing to kill innocent Muslims as well. You can't seem to get passed the fact that Muslims are doing more damage than Christians, despite the fact that I've acknowledged that point repeatedly. This is a little like an NBA fan blaming the NFL for spousal abuse. Is football the root of abuse or does the main impetus lie elsewhere, even if more in the NFL abuse than do those in the NBA?

Both Christianity and Islam have scriptures commanding them to kill non-believers....so that's a problem but the vast majority of participants in both religions don't really follow that rule. Terrorism has no religion and spares no religion. Middle Eastern terrorists aren't going after non-believers like the Christians did a few hundred years back, they are primarily killing other Muslims. Christians aren't nearly as slaughter happy as they were in the past, yet the religion still exists. Cultures and values were reformed and the way people practiced the religion changed along with it.

Dysfunctional, violent, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, theocratic cultures need to be reformed with democratic, universal secular ethics, rights and freedoms. Those values can't be bombed or killed into a culture, it takes the support of grassroots, youth led efforts.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Guest

[Argus]

We all know that there are a lot of killings in many of the Muslim majority nations. Why do they mainly kill other Muslims?

They kill those who have a different interpretation of Islam.

Also why is it that those racists, misogynists, homophobes, etc. types that we all know exist in the ME in record numbers, are primarily Christian in this part of the world?

All religions are insular, to some extent. In India, the most vicious and intolerant people will all be deep believers in Hinduism or Islam or Sikhism.

Where the difference lays is that the Christian racists aren't setting fire to people of other races as they are there, aren't murdering homosexuals here, as they are there, aren't beating women to death here as they are there. The intolerance of some conservative Christians in Canada is expressed in extremely mild and non-violent ways here compared to what goes on in the rest of the world.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Argus

[rotary]

They kill those who have a different interpretation of Islam.

All religions are insular, to some extent. In India, the most vicious and intolerant people will all be deep believers in Hinduism or Islam or Sikhism.

Where the difference lays is that the Christian racists aren't setting fire to people of other races as they are there, aren't murdering homosexuals here, as they are there, aren't beating women to death here as they are there. The intolerance of some conservative Christians in Canada is expressed in extremely mild and non-violent ways here compared to what goes on in the rest of the world.

So then why do you propose to extend your own form of conservative intolerance to stop people from coming here to flee the kind of vicious religious extremes you speak of?

[Guest]

The intolerance of some conservative Christians in Canada is expressed in extremely mild and non-violent ways here compared to what goes on in the rest of the world.

The same can generally be said for Canadians in general, including Canadian Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. The religions are the same so why are extremists, less extreme here?

[SunnyWays]

So North American terrorists, homophobes, misogynists, racists are comprised of a higher percentage of Christians than the general US population. Does that mean Christianity leads to despicable acts and beliefs or could the culture of certain regions lead to both crime and greater and more fervent religious participation?

Asked and answered twice - but let me try again. The "general population" of the US is comprised of 70% who identify themselves as Christian - so does it not make sense that most of those dastardly villains would be Christian? How this relates to anything regarding terrorism that involves heinous and wanton murdering of innocent women and children is beyond me. Yesterday, in just one attack, terrorists killed more people (mostly women and children) that all your "right wing terrorism" attacks over the last 15 years!

[Guest]

Asked and answered twice - but let me try again. The "general population" of the US is comprised of 70% who identify themselves as Christian - so does it not make sense that most of those dastardly villains would be Christian? How this relates to anything regarding terrorism that involves heinous and wanton murdering of innocent women and children is beyond me. Yesterday, in just one attack, terrorists killed more people (mostly women and children) that all your "right wing terrorism" attacks over the last 15 years!

As mentioned right wing extremist groups typically represent a higher percentage of Christians than the general population. Also as mentioned, the US has two Christian presidential hopefuls vowing to kill innocents.

Why is it that extremists of all varieties, Christian right, Muslim, Hindu, etc. commit far fewer violent acts over here? There are millions of Muslims alone and it's the same religion yet so little terror compared to other parts of the world. Thoughts?

[jacee]

News reports from Lahore did say that just prior to Yelling Allahu Akbar the suicide bomber was heard to say that Canada's deficit might be a tad too large, and sex education should be kept out of school until at least the 8th grade.

So you could be right...

I know you're being facetious, but eyeball is right and so are you: Canadian Muslims are often fiscally conservative small business owners, and do tend to be social conservatives and among the parents opposed to sex education in schools.

A strong connection has developed via school/community parent groups between them and other moderate conservative religious groups in Canada.

Some Muslims prefer to send their kids to Catholic schools in their neighbourhoods, not for religion but because of shared social values.

(Because Catholic schools are publicly funded, other religious practices must be accommodated.)

.

Edited March 28, 2016 by jacee

[SunnyWays]

As mentioned right wing extremist groups typically represent a higher percentage of Christians than the general population. Also as mentioned, the US has two Christian presidential hopefuls vowing to kill innocents.

Why is it that extremists of all varieties, Christian right, Muslim, Hindu, etc. commit far fewer violent acts over here? There are millions of Muslims alone and it's the same religion yet so little terror compared to other parts of the world. Thoughts?

I think that's been answered by another poster - but two things come to mind. One - those who make the decision to come to the US or Canada are more "liberal" in their thinking and are generally willing to accept the Melting Pot or Multiculturalism. Two - our immigration systems are designed (hopefully) to validate that mindset. In simple terms - those that "hate" or are "suspicious" of the West would simply not come here. The fly in the ointment that spoils it all for everyone are those that might come here specifically to inflict the type of heinous mayhem that we see in Europe. It's a shame - but we have to be ever so vigilant.

[dre]

As mentioned right wing extremist groups typically represent a higher percentage of Christians than the general population. Also as mentioned, the US has two Christian presidential hopefuls vowing to kill innocents.

Why is it that extremists of all varieties, Christian right, Muslim, Hindu, etc. commit far fewer violent acts over here? There are millions of Muslims alone and it's the same religion yet so little terror compared to other parts of the world. Thoughts?

There's just not much to be angry about over here. Its not a conflict zone, and muslim's that come here are dispersed enough so that we don't see TOO much sectarian stuff.

"Plan a terrorist attack? Screw that! Survivor is on tonight!".

"Car bombing? No way! I still have 4 years worth of payments on it!"

They get lazy and apathetic like we are pretty damn fast.

[Argus]

So then why do you propose to extend your own form of conservative intolerance to stop people from coming here to flee the kind of vicious religious extremes you speak of?

You have zero evidence the bulk of our immigrants are fleeing anything but poverty. And I want to stop them bringing their religious intolerance to Canada and building up large, insular communities of religiously and socially intolerant people who believe violence is Gods will.

[Argus]

The same can generally be said for Canadians in general, including Canadian Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. The religions are the same so why are extremists, less extreme here?

Who says they are? They are smaller in number, that's for sure. Lacking the large community to give them support it's pretty hard to start demanding special laws catering to their religious preferences. Of course, as the size of the community grows in Canada that can change. Given their general lack of economic success as compared to other source regions I see no need to take any chances.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

As mentioned right wing extremist groups typically represent a higher percentage of Christians than the general population. Also as mentioned, the US has two Christian presidential hopefuls vowing to kill innocents.

You are forgetting the major difference between arch-conservatives and their co-coreligionists elsewhere. Most of the violence being committed by Muslims throughout the world is on behalf of their religion against those who are not respecters or followers of their religion. There is no real equivalence here, even among arch-conservatives. Individuals might not think much of Sikhs with their funny turbans or Muslims with their gowns, but they aren't, any of them, setting out to murder these people because their existence offends God. You don't see any tension to speak of between different sects of Christianity either. Presbyterians and Baptists and Anglicans and Catholics and the rest of them all get along fine. There is no real base of support among any of the mainstream Christian groups in North America for violence of any sort against other religions or anyone else. You will not find priests or ministers damning Sikhs or giving sermons about how the Amish are a filthy sect which defiles the land.

[Guest]

I think that's been answered by another poster - but two things come to mind. One - those who make the decision to come to the US or Canada are more "liberal" in their thinking and are generally willing to accept the Melting Pot or Multiculturalism. Two - our immigration systems are designed (hopefully) to validate that mindset. In simple terms - those that "hate" or are "suspicious" of the West would simply not come here. The fly in the ointment that spoils it all for everyone are those that might come here specifically to inflict the type of heinous mayhem that we see in Europe. It's a shame - but we have to be ever so vigilant.

Only the liberals have immigrated? LMAO! Yes, we do have to be vigilant and we should help combat the problem. Bombing a symptom of the problem doesn't solve it. Blaming the religion, an aspect of the problem doesn't help, nor does pretending it has no impact.

We used nauseating, limp State-Department-coined phrases such as “al-Qaeda-inspired extremism” to refer to what was clearly an ideology. But as the assassination of Osama Bin Laden in his Pakistani hideout proved, we cannot arrest nor shoot our way out of this problem. “Defeating” al Qaeda was only ever going to give rise to a group like ISIS, because it was not al Qaeda that had “inspired extremism”; it was extremism that had inspired al Qaeda.

This struggle is an ideological one before it is a military or legal one. Vague platitudes that this has nothing to do with Islam—my own religion—are as unhelpful as saying that this is the essence of Islam. Extremism certainly has something to do with Islam. Not nothing, not everything, but something.

So, let there be no doubt. We are in the middle of a struggle against theocracy, and for secular liberal democratic values. Muslims and non-Muslims respectively must join together in that fight. This is why Trump’s divisive rhetoric is so unhelpful. Everyone must stand together to discredit Islamism, and to support a reform in Islamic discourse. All of us together are responsible for challenging intolerant, theocratic thinking before it spills over to violence. All of us together are responsible for refusing to allow religion to become the primary bond that divides us from “the other.”

As Pakistan shows us, this is a difficult, fraught, lifelong struggle that few are yet prepared to face. But face it we must.

-Maajid Nawaz

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/28/what-the-slaughter-of-christians-in-lahore-says-about-the-global-jihad.html

Just as cultural reforms led to a less kill happy Christianity, cultural reforms will lead to a much safer and more ethical Middle East. Forward thinking individuals, groups and governments will have to support the grassroots movements building demand for democracy and secular liberal values. We must also be ready to defend our own culture from the growing global authoritarian right movements. Theocrats and fascists like Cruz and Trump are just the tip of the iceberg; extremism and theocracy needs to be stamped out everywhere. We must be vigilant.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Guest