BC_chick Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Do you know how many times I've been through this kind of downturn to one degree or another? Deathbed? Hardly. Market correction - just like last time, and the time before, and the time before that....... You can't compare this to previous downturns because environmentalism wasn't a factor before. Previously there were world political and economic factors, there is now a social consciousness toward fossil-fuels that makes this downturn unique than the ones beforehand. There IS a future there but the question is can the Federal NDP see it? If the new leader, with the new Manifesto in hand, decides that oil and gas is to be ignored then I would really like to see their budget accounting. It should be fairly straightforward - just take total government revenues and deduct all the royalties and taxes from the industry across Canada and the spinoff industries. That should make for a much more manageable revenue number to work with. The goal is to move away from fossil-fuel industry within certain timeframes, not stop immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Here comes the fallout of Mulcair losing the leadership review...... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-ndp-leap-manifesto-anger-1.3529980 "Members started coming to me to say, 'We have to write a resolution to our provincial convention to split from the federal party.' Goodbye "one big happy party"... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/rachel-notley-calls-leap-manifesto-naive-and-ill-informed-1.3530309 Rachel Notley calls Leap Manifesto 'naive' and 'ill-informed' Without the "not really centrist but not really left wing either" Tom Mulcair, the only real strength/credibility the Federal NDP had that showed their "ideas" could work (Notley) is about to disappear. Will soon resemble a bladeless knife without a handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 You can't compare this to previous downturns because environmentalism wasn't a factor before.There have always been religious fanatics convinced the world will end in their time. Environmentalism is the trendy religion for the people who think god is is dirty word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 (edited) http://www.savethewhales.org/decal.html They've always been around...... Got to fight something to be happy. edit-> Forgot to add this one... http://www.history.alberta.ca/EnergyHeritage/oil/energy-crises-political-debates-and-environmental-concerns-1970s-1980s/rise-of-the-environmental-movement/default.aspx The worldwide environmental movement began to develop and organize rapidly in the 1960s. In 1962, Rachel Carson’s book Silent Spring convincingly argued that chemical pollution was causing untold damage to the general flora and fauna and was also detrimental to human health. In 1967, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation released “Air of Death,” So maybe this whole "social conscience towards fossil fuels" isn't quite as new as some would have us believe. Edited April 11, 2016 by Hydraboss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 http://www.savethewhales.org/decal.html They've always been around...... Got to fight something to be happy. edit-> Forgot to add this one... http://www.history.alberta.ca/EnergyHeritage/oil/energy-crises-political-debates-and-environmental-concerns-1970s-1980s/rise-of-the-environmental-movement/default.aspx So maybe this whole "social conscience towards fossil fuels" isn't quite as new as some would have us believe. Rise of it may have begun in the 70's and 80's but it's no longer a fringe movement. When you have nation governments coming together for things like Paris Climate Change Conference, it's pretty absurd to compare today's environmentalism with the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 There have always been religious fanatics convinced the world will end in their time. Environmentalism is the trendy religion for the people who think god is is dirty word. I'll believe it when the deniers start investing their own money into the industry. It's a good time to buy if you really believed what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I'll believe it when the deniers start investing their own money into the industry. If you mean the energy sector, I guess you have to start believing then. Lots of us out here are dumping cash into low value energy stocks/companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 No, I'd like a two (relevant) party system as in the US - which is pretty much where we're going to be once the NDP "acclaim" the Manifesto. With only the Libs and Cons remaining, neither one can really screw up majorly without being held to account at election time. This was much more complicated when the NDP remained somewhat of a political force but I think that's disappearing rapidly. I've never made a secret that I don't like the Liberal agenda (and that I have a seething hatred for any politician name Trudeau) but having a balancing act on the other side of the aisle is always necessary. I'd be just as happy if the NDP and Libs joined and became one party, but I highly doubt the result would just be simple addition of the votes each individual one gets in elections. Some of the NDP "believers" would likely wander off and support even more fringe parties, and a portion of the Lib supporters would probably migrate to the Cons. The NDP and Greens will continue to provide direction, conscience and a kick in the pants to the entrenched status quo parties. ? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 If you mean the energy sector, I guess you have to start believing then. Lots of us out here are dumping cash into low value energy stocks/companies. I was talking about oil companies, more specifically. But good for you if you're willing to do that. I always have respect for people who are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Even if I disagree with their predictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
square Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Do you guys believe Jack Layton would be Prime Minister if he was still alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Not a chance of Layton becoming PM. Although he's been "remembered" as this semi-messiah, the truth is he still reminded a lot of people as a used car salesman. He had nothing to offer Canada except to act as some kind of "conscience" to which no one paid attention. I never disliked Jack, but there was no way in hell he was ever going to lead a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Smallc, I used a small c. I know, and I was starting sentence, so had no choice. I still think that kind of talk is beneath you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 It's not beneath anyone. Trudeau is scum. The Liberals are scum and, as a political party, they will lie without hesitation. This may offend your partisan side (which we all have) but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Likely, it just means you and I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 It's not beneath anyone. Trudeau is scum. The Liberals are scum and, as a political party, they will lie without hesitation. As will most humans, including conservative ones. The partisan side of you doesn't seem to understand that there are only people, no matter their political leanings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Do you guys believe Jack Layton would be Prime Minister if he was still alive? The guy was on a roll leading up to the previous election, he was completely schooling the other candidates. When you consider that the NDP was still in the running so close to the last election based on Layton's earlier success, and despite 4 years of Mulcair being an angry jackass, it's not unlikely imo. I would never have voted NDP but then I would have never voted for a pre-school substitute teacher either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Chriton Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) The bottom line is Alberta needs to wake up and think beyond oil and if Notley wants to be no different than the previous government when it comes to the living in denial, then so be it. Is anyone suggesting oil is the only future? It seems like the only folks naively proposing to limit options are those that are saying leave all oil in the ground. You can have more than one business in a province. It's not easy to diversify if you shutdown your economy. As silly as the arguments to limit GHG emissions by shifting manufacturing to China, et. al. by stiff new corp taxes (carbon taxes). Doesn't solve anything from a world-wide environmental perspective but costs lots of Canadian jobs. Edited April 12, 2016 by Martin Chriton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Good, let her get the boot if she insists on keeping Alberta hooked on oil. If she were as smart as her federal counterparts, she'd start working on a better future for Alberta. She runs a province whose primary resource is oil and gas. She's supposed to spurn those in favor of rainbows and unicorns? How exactly does that help her pay for health care and the world's most expensive teachers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Rise of it may have begun in the 70's and 80's but it's no longer a fringe movement. When you have nation governments coming together for things like Paris Climate Change Conference, it's pretty absurd to compare today's environmentalism with the 70's. They're much less sensible now, and care even less about facts and reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Trudeau is scum. The Liberals are scum and, as a political party, they will lie without hesitation. ...despite 4 years of Mulcair being an angry jackass... They're much less sensible now, and care even less about facts and reality. Brilliant political analysis, gentlemen. I'm enlightened by your comments, as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 No, the Conservatives will be back. Who cares though, if the NDP can't get Alberta to wake up and smell the coffee, it won't make a difference who is in charge. The bottom line is Alberta needs to wake up and think beyond oil and if Notley wants to be no different than the previous government when it comes to the living in denial, then so be it. Alberta's head is deep in the sand and that's the real problem. What's the driving force behind the BC economy BC chick? Our main export is the ownership of real estate. There's hardly any manufacturing, mining, forestry, agriculture, etc to speak of. This economy is tied to the real estate boom and beyond that we have a bunch of teachers, hair dressers, nail technicians, and people who work in retail etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 The NDP Party got smug. They were convinced the Liberals were permanently wounded when the Liberals tossed Justin Trudeau in as leader. That very much reflected Mulcair's personal belief ( and it still is mine) that Justin Trudeau is a large puff pastry and Mulcair could offer a steak instead. Mulcair tried to turn the NDP into the Liberals to then make them redundant. His politics reflected toning down union connection references, not causing deficits or bashing Israel, all things the NDP love to do. It made him unpopular. The rank and file thought he was a Liberal not an NDP'er. They put up with him because the polls were what they were. Once he lost, of course they wanted his head. The fact is there is no one in Canada with the charisma to carry the NDP to an election victory or counter the Liberals in left wing idiocy of spend spend spend government does all for the masses. At best they will pick some failed MLA from Nova Scotia again or an aging NDP'er corrupted from years of the cushy life in Ottawa. The NDP is about as revolutionary as a hemmeroid and it serves the same function in Canadian politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andromeda Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 the convention was a real eye opener. the leap manifesto shows how crazy the extremists in the NDP actually are. i'm surprised that mulcair is even hanging around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 The NDP is about as revolutionary as a hemmeroid and it serves the same function in Canadian politics. the leap manifesto shows how crazy the extremists in the NDP actually are. More enlightenment. If this thread was about Harper or the CPC and people were speaking this way, you people would be whining to the moderators and it would be locked. This has been nothing but page after page of derogatory remarks and name calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Then go whine to them Cyber - you wouldn't be the first one to in the last few pages. You know quite well there have been umpteen threads that called Harper and the Cons everything under the sun. As for Mulcair, I think the best thing he could do for himself would be to move over to the Liberals. His statements in the press pre-leadership review were pretty clear that he really doesn't stand for anything in particular..."I'll basically do whatever the party decides to", so that makes him a perfect flip-flop and govern by the polls candidate and fits with the way the Libs have always been. It could also guarantee him a job once the NDP finally boots him so at least he'd keep earning the big bucks and have Canadians continue to sock away cash for his pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Why whine to them when I find it glorious that this thread stands as a monument to how hypocritical you guys are. I hope it continues. This is gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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