Britain Sets Date for EU Referendum -- Brexit

[Argus]

Cameron called this because he was sure it would end the constant bitching within his own party from those who were tired of the ever increasing buracracy and interference from Brussels. And it would have - until last summer, and the great migration of Muslims from Asia and Africa. Last summer showed just how incompetent and paralyzed the decision making process in Brussels is. They still haven't come up with how to handle the continuing flood of migrants, and that added enormously to the sense of alienation so many English felt at the mass of foreigners - mainly Eastern Europeans - flooding their country. They didn't want another mass of people moving in, which was inevitable under the EU.

When Britain joined the EU eastern Europeans were not members, and most of the member countries were at roughly the same level of economic success. They didn't expect, nor did they get, floods of Europeans moving in to live there. Expanding the EU changed that, and there is the constant threat of what happens with Turkey. If Turkey is successful in blackmailing the spineless leaders of the EU into giving its people visa free travel there will likely be at least a million of them moving west.

[kactus]

What "Great?" Obviously the English didn't think so....thus putting the Great back to England, won!

"Little" England is so much better than no more England at all!

Sorry but fail to understand the logic. What has that got to do with Europe?

If your concern is over immigration tighter rules would have resolved this. There was no need for UK to exit EU for scaremongering tactics over immigration....

What many people fail to understand is that UK economy is based on service not manufacturing! Most of imports is from Europe. This will have devastating consequences for the economy and employment.

Edited June 24, 2016 by kactus

[kactus]

Cameron called this because he was sure it would end the constant bitching within his own party from those who were tired of the ever increasing buracracy and interference from Brussels. And it would have - until last summer, and the great migration of Muslims from Asia and Africa. Last summer showed just how incompetent and paralyzed the decision making process in Brussels is. They still haven't come up with how to handle the continuing flood of migrants, and that added enormously to the sense of alienation so many English felt at the mass of foreigners - mainly Eastern Europeans - flooding their country. They didn't want another mass of people moving in, which was inevitable under the EU.

When Britain joined the EU eastern Europeans were not members, and most of the member countries were at roughly the same level of economic success. They didn't expect, nor did they get, floods of Europeans moving in to live there. Expanding the EU changed that, and there is the constant threat of what happens with Turkey. If Turkey is successful in blackmailing the spineless leaders of the EU into giving its people visa free travel there will likely be at least a million of them moving west.

To my knowledge I don't think the outcome of this vote wil have any impact the flow of movements within EU or UK. An eastern european pole will be able to travel to UK without any any restrictions. Granted it might impact their work permit but that is not going to happen for nect two years...,

[TimG]

There was no need for UK to exit EU for scaremongering tactics over immigration.

I would turn that around. Remain would have won if the EU-centric elites had shown more respect for the legitimate worries about the harms caused by unfettered immigration. Unfortunately, they choose to insult and belittle people who raised such concerns and told them they should shut up and do what their betters tell them to do.

The lesson for politicians: calling people racists for raising concerns about immigration will come back to haunt you whether it is is via Brexit or Trump or some other way.

[Guest]

More walls built by the old. The Donald would be proud of the British.

The figures — published after polls closed on Thursday night — suggest that 75% of 18-24 year olds voted to remain in the EU, while 53% of 50-64 year olds and 59% of people over 65 voted to leave.

The survey has prompted an outpouring of disappointment on social media among younger voters...

http://mashable.com/2016/06/24/young-generation-brexit/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-uk-link#UYpN4gzMqmq6

I guess voting rights should be inversely proportional to age. The older you are, the less clout you have. That might lessen social media whining. Probably be worth it.

[kactus]

I would turn that around. Remain would have won if the EU-centric elites had shown more respect for the legitimate worries about the harms caused by unfettered immigration. Unfortunately, they choose to insult and belittle people who raised such concerns and told them they should shut up and do what their betters tell them to do.The lesson for politicians: calling people racists for raising concerns about immigration will come back to haunt you whether it is is via Brexit or Trump or some other way.

The exit vote over remain was won marginal. Almost 50:50. If the split was 70% in favour of leave I could have understood your argument but it isn't...it shows the mess the country is in and the challenges potential next tory leader faces.

[Argus]

Sorry but fail to understand the logic. What has that got to do with Europe?

If your concern is over immigration tighter rules would have resolved this. There was no need for UK to exit EU for scaremongering tactics over immigration...

The attempted to negotiate tighter rules and were shrugged off by the EU.

[Argus]

To my knowledge I don't think the outcome of this vote wil have any impact the flow of movements within EU or UK. An eastern european pole will be able to travel to UK without any any restrictions. Granted it might impact their work permit but that is not going to happen for nect two years...,

This is a long term thing. The flood will slow, as the government of the UK desires. And those who wish to go to work in the UK will likely need a permit, just as they do here. I've read, in the run-up to this, that there has been a suggestion among bureaucrats that a sort of English eu might be arranged with Canada, Australia and New Zealand which might allow for the same free flow of workers, services and goods as the EU. It might wind up involving the US, as well. Though clearly not Mexico...

The economies and living standards of these countries are similar so you'd be unlikely to see masses of job seekers flooding into one or another of them. It would allow professionals to move back and forth, though.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Argus

[TimG]

The exit vote over remain was won marginal. Almost 50:50. If the split was 70% in favour of leave I could have understood your argument but it isn't...it shows the mess the country is in and the challenges potential next tory leader faces.

My argument is that more consideration and less arrogance on the immigration file would have likely swung a sufficient number of people into the remain camp. Such consideration would not have made a difference if the vote was 70-30. Edited June 24, 2016 by TimG

[Guest]

The UK this morning is probably a lot like Alberta was the morning after the NDP won a majority.

[Bonam]

My argument is that more consideration and less arrogance on the immigration file would have likely swung a sufficient number of people into the remain camp. Such consideration would not have made a difference if the vote was 70-30.

Indeed. My facebook feed is full of people stunned and indignant that all the "ignorant racists and bigots" (i.e. people who dare question unlimited immigration / refugee flows) dared to vote for leave. Yeah... no shit they did, the remain camp has spent the entire campaign doing nothing but insulting them and ignoring their concerns.

[Argus]

I really don't understand why this caught everyone by surprise. The polls showed Leave ahead last week, then a shifted to Remain after the murder of Cox. But Remain was only 2% ahead, and given statistical error is a dead heat. Plus it was clear that the Leave side were more passionate and thus more likely to actually show up at the polls. Global markets had seemed sure that the vote would be for Remain, as if it were a done deal. Idiots.

[Argus]

Indeed. My facebook feed is full of people stunned and indignant that all the "ignorant racists and bigots" (i.e. people who dare question unlimited immigration / refugee flows) dared to vote for leave. Yeah... no shit they did, the remain camp has spent the entire campaign doing nothing but insulting them and ignoring their concerns.

You see the same attitude here among the Left. Anyone who dares to question massive immigration, on any basis, be it social, cultural, or economic, is dismissed out of hand even though the Left has basically zero supporting evidence for their support of wide open immigration. That mass immigration is a good thing is simply something which is taken as a given.

[Bonam]

I really don't understand why this caught everyone by surprise. The polls showed Leave ahead last week, then a shifted to Remain after the murder of Cox. But Remain was only 2% ahead, and given statistical error is a dead heat. Plus it was clear that the Leave side were more passionate and thus more likely to actually show up at the polls. Global markets had seemed sure that the vote would be for Remain, as if it were a done deal. Idiots.

It only really caught dumb people by surprise. Everyone else realized that the vote was very close, within the margin of error of all the polls, and could go either way. But there's enough dumb people in the markets so they make plenty of impact

[Bonam]

You see the same attitude here among the Left. Anyone who dares to question massive immigration, on any basis, be it social, cultural, or economic, is dismissed out of hand even though the Left has basically zero supporting evidence for their support of wide open immigration. That mass immigration is a good thing is simply something which is taken as a given.

Yeah and if there's ever a vote related to the issue, they'll be just as stunned and indignant when they realize just how many people aren't on board with the mass immigration agenda.

Sad thing is, as much of an idiot as Trump is, he very likely might win the presidency because there are simply so many people who have been marginalized by mainstream politics and politicians for so long, that they will vote for a complete moron just because he is talking about a concern they have rather than calling them racists for having it.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Bonam

[Argus]

It only really caught dumb people by surprise. Everyone else realized that the vote was very close, within the margin of error of all the polls, and could go either way. But there's enough dumb people in the markets so they make plenty of impact

Yes, I sold off half my stocks over the past week or so, and am now looking for bargains.

[kactus]

My argument is that more consideration and less arrogance on the immigration file would have likely swung a sufficient number of people into the remain camp. Such consideration would not have made a difference if the vote was 70-30.

Do you think it was right for Cameron to step down?

[Argus]

Do you think it was right for Cameron to step down?

Absolutely. This vote was a direct slap in the face for Cameron from many Conservative voters who ignored his advice, clearly showing a lack of confidence in him and his honesty. Corbet should resign, as well, since there was a surge of Labour voters for Remain who likewise showed they had no faith in his opinions. This is a rejection of the elites, a sign that ordinary people felt the elites made decisions which largely benefited themselves.

[waldo]

This is a rejection of the elites, a sign that ordinary people felt the elites made decisions which largely benefited themselves.

they sure showed them there elites... so what if their economy tanks... and their 'kingdom' falls apart - they sure showed em'!

.

[kactus]

they sure showed them there elites... so what if their economy tanks... and their 'kingdom' falls apart - they sure showed em'!

.

That is exactly what I think and I fear that the whole fiasco could potentially be hijacked by some xenophobics rather than addressing the real economic issues...

Edited June 24, 2016 by kactus

[Guest]

That is exactly what I think and I fear that the whole fiasco could potentially be hijacked by some xenophobics rather than addressing the real economic issues...

What if the xenophobia is caused by economic issues?

[Argus]

they sure showed them there elites... so what if their economy tanks... and their 'kingdom' falls apart - they sure showed em'!

.

You can't make an omelet without scrambling a few eggs.

[kactus]

What if the xenophobia is caused by economic issues?

Britain has had the lowest level of unemployment under current conservative government for many years...

[waldo]

You can't make an omelet without scrambling a few eggs.

speaking of scrambled eggs... Trump is "fortuitously" in Scotland to reopen his "Turnberry golf course": "running a nation is a lot like running a golf course. When the pound goes down, more people are coming to Turnberry, frankly".

Brexit... all about Trump and making him some coin!

.

[BC_chick]

they sure showed them there elites... so what if their economy tanks... and their 'kingdom' falls apart - they sure showed em'!

.

You took the words out of my mouth. I've been reading these posts ("that's what you get for calling people racist!") and shaking my head.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.