terrorists occupy gov't office in Oregon

[Derek 2.0]

If there is a hole on the drivers side windshield when the helicopter starts circling (I have not seen one) then the most likely explanation was the subsequent use of non-lethal devices - sponge projectiles with oc to disorientate the passengers in a vehicle that had both fled the LEOs and had several loaded weapons. Aiming at the empty driver seat is the most logical choice to reduce the chances of injuries.

You are suggesting LEOs would fire (any device) into the parked truck, from an officer off camera, into the direction of the officers in the roadblock and the officers circling around the drivers side?

You consider that most likely?

[biotk]

No, he was on his back with his hands up.............I wonder why McConnell wasn't charged with anything?

The claim was that he was on his knees with his hands up when he was shot the first time. He clearly wasn't. Instead he was resisting arrest and had his hands near a loaded 9mm.

Several people between the two vehicles were not charged with anything. McConnell explains why in his video - they had nothing on him because he was not an idiot like the Bundy's and several others.

And your point? They were up/away from is body when he was shot a second time on the ground........and motionless with his hand away from his body, as he was still being targeted minutes later, evident by the lasers painting his body (13:20 second mark)...

I would expect them to continue to have guns pointed at him until the scene was secure and they checked him for weapons.

Other than what was stated by the FBI to the press....

Possibly. There is no statement from the FBI on this, and the only source for the minor injury being a gun shot is oregonlive.com.

[biotk]

You consider that most likely?

I consider it most likely that there was no hole in the driver side windshield and instead it is just you seeing what ever you want to see as you have consistently done in this thread. But if there was a hole in the driver side windshield, yes, it is most likely from a non-lethal device fired after the driver left. Your belief that they fired a bullet at driver while he was stopped for several minutes is so far beyond absurd no one should take anything you say seriously.

[Derek 2.0]

The claim was that he was on his knees with his hands up when he was shot the first time. He clearly wasn't. Instead he was resisting arrest and had his hands near a loaded 9mm.

Why would a right handed person be reaching for a holstered gun on his left side?

Several people between the two vehicles were not charged with anything. McConnell explains why in his video - they had nothing on him because he was not an idiot like the Bundy's and several others.

And yet, one of the women in the truck stated they were shot at when first stopped.

I would expect them to continue to have guns pointed at him until the scene was secure and they checked him for weapons.

Of course.

Possibly. There is no statement from the FBI on this, and the only source for the minor injury being a gun shot is oregonlive.com.

The media is quoting a statement released by police..........

------------

My question, why does the footage appear to skip at the 39:40 mark (14:08 in the youtube video).?

[ReeferMadness]

Would you run away after being shot or shot at?

Never been shot at so it's tough to say. In this case, he clearly wasn't getting anywhere though. Nobody else in the truck tried to run away.

[Derek 2.0]

I consider it most likely that there was no hole in the driver side windshield and instead it is just you seeing what ever you want to see as you have consistently done in this thread. But if there was a hole in the driver side windshield, yes, it is most likely from a non-lethal device fired after the driver left. Your belief that they fired a bullet at driver while he was stopped for several minutes is so far beyond absurd no one should take anything you say seriously.

You can see several bullet holes in the windshield, post crash, that weren't there when it was stopped prior........

You claim it absurd, but it was stated by one of the women in the car, further to that, would explain why, after him having his hands out the window after stopping, he then took off again.

[Derek 2.0]

Never been shot at so it's tough to say. In this case, he clearly wasn't getting anywhere though. Nobody else in the truck tried to run away.

No, one of the passengers stated there were shots fired after they stopped earlier, which could be the reason for buggering off again, after he was already stopped and putting his hands out the window.

[ReeferMadness]

Why would a right handed person be reaching for a holstered gun on his left side?

According to the FBI, he was carrying a 9mm in his left pocket, not a holster.

[ReeferMadness]

No, one of the passengers stated there were shots fired after they stopped earlier, which could be the reason for buggering off again, after he was already stopped and putting his hands out the window.

At what point in the film do you see his hands out the window? And why would they shoot? If anything, the guy in the helicopter with a rifle would have had the best angle. And if he shot, we would have seen the impacts.

Also, between 1:45 and 2:21, you can see a white splat mark on the windshield, drivers side. It could have been a bullet or it could have been a rock. The video isn't clear enough. Originally, I thought that's what you meant by bullet hole but it was clearly there when they were first stopped.

[Derek 2.0]

According to the FBI, he was carrying a 9mm in his left pocket, not a holster.

Why would a right handed man carry a 9mm in his left pocket? There are numerous types of holsters, including pocket holsters, so that isn't an issue, other than why he wouldn't be wearing one and carrying on his weak side.

[biotk]

Why would a right handed person be reaching for a holstered gun on his left side?

Why would a police officer stop to consider whether someone - who had just fled the police, and had said that he would not be taken alive, and who no longer had his hands up, but they were instead in the coat pocket area - was right handed or left handed? I am not saying that he was or was not reaching for his gun. I am saying that it was a very reasonable assumption for those officers to make.

And yet, one of the women in the truck stated they were shot at when first stopped.

Yes, Victoria Sharp said that they were shot at “at least 120 shots altogether”

I don't believe her for multiple reasons. 1) Anyone can watch the video and see that is clearly not true 2) they are not all dead many times over 3) this is just more evidence that these people are unhinged from reality and simply playing the hero role in their own deluded fantasies.

The media is quoting a statement released by police..........

The only media that is making that claim is oregonlive.com. Any other source links back to them.

Oregonlive said:

"Ryan Bundy, 43, of Bunkerville, Nev., suffered a minor gunshot wound in the confrontation about 4:30 p.m. along U.S. 395. He was treated and released from a local hospital and was in FBI custody, authorities said."

This does not appear to be a direct quote from a released statement. It could be from any "authority" and the "authorities said" could be just referring to the second sentence and not the first.

It is not impossible that he suffered a gun shot wound, but it is certainly not established, and I am extremely doubtful.

My question, why does the footage appear to skip at the 39:40 mark (14:08 in the youtube video).?

Beats me.

Edited January 29, 2016 by biotk

[ReeferMadness]

Why would a right handed man carry a 9mm in his left pocket? There are numerous types of holsters, including pocket holsters, so that isn't an issue, other than why he wouldn't be wearing one and carrying on his weak side.

I don't carry a gun so I don't know. Maybe it was an inside pocket, in which case it would be easier to pull it with a right hand.

[ReeferMadness]

Yes, Victoria Sharp said that they were shot at “at least 120 shots altogether”

That's ridiculous. Where are all the bullet holes in the white truck? There wouldn't have been a window left in it.

[Derek 2.0]

At what point in the film do you see his hands out the window?

Driver and front passenger around ~2:00 mark and on.

And why would they shoot?

Who knows, isn't that the question asked of cops often in our police shooting threads?

If anything, the guy in the helicopter with a rifle would have had the best angle. And if he shot, we would have seen the impacts.

There wouldn't be a guy in the helicopter with a rifle (that is movie stuff), too unstable and too far up/away.........and wouldn't see impacts if they didn't hit the truck.

Also, between 1:45 and 2:21, you can see a white splat mark on the windshield, drivers side. It could have been a bullet or it could have been a rock. The video isn't clear enough. Originally, I thought that's what you meant by bullet hole but it was clearly there when they were first stopped.

I know the one you're talking about, you can see it after the crash too, I'm assuming that is a paper/map book or a hat on the dash.....look before and after the crash driver's side right above where the VIN# would be.

[Derek 2.0]

I don't carry a gun so I don't know. Maybe it was an inside pocket, in which case it would be easier to pull it with a right hand.

No, its easier to draw with ones dominant hand.....Do you ever decide to sign your name with the other hand?

[ReeferMadness]

Driver and front passenger around ~2:00 mark and on.

Can't see it - I'll try on my desktop with a bigger monitor.

Who knows, isn't that the question asked of cops often in our police shooting threads?

If they're shooting, they're doing it from behind. Where are the bullet holes in the back of the truck? Or do they all miss?

There wouldn't be a guy in the helicopter with a rifle (that is movie stuff), too unstable and too far up/away.........and wouldn't see impacts if they didn't hit the truck.

There is clearly a red laser dot on the roof of the truck. If it's not a guy with a rifle, what is it?

I know the one you're talking about, you can see it after the crash too, I'm assuming that is a paper/map book or a hat on the dash.....look before and after the crash driver's side right above where the VIN# would be.

Again, I'll check on my bigger monitor. I see nothing.

[Derek 2.0]

That's ridiculous. Where are all the bullet holes in the white truck? There wouldn't have been a window left in it.

A 120 rounds is nothing for a gaggle of police, and again, outside of movies, the vast majority would be nowhere near on target, from officers that seconds earlier had a pick-up bearing down on them.

[ReeferMadness]

No, its easier to draw with ones dominant hand.....Do you ever decide to sign your name with the other hand?

When I wear a suit jacket, I keep my wallet in my left inside pocket and draw it out with my right hand. Trying to reach to a right inside pocket with a right hand is almost impossible.

[ReeferMadness]

A 120 rounds is nothing for a gaggle of police, and again, outside of movies, the vast majority would be nowhere near on target, from officers that seconds earlier had a pick-up bearing down on them.

Here is a car with 137 shots fired at it. Compare that with the truck.

Do you think the Baltimore police have better weapons/aim than the FBI/Oregon State Police?

[Derek 2.0]

Can't see it - I'll try on my desktop with a bigger monitor.

Try around ~2:15 and look at both sides.

If they're shooting, they're doing it from behind. Where are the bullet holes in the back of the truck? Or do they all miss?

Or from the sides or front.....the police wouldn't be able to see through the canopy, into the cab, so would fan out to either sides. As to missing, who knows, but we can't see, when he takes off, the passenger side or front of the truck.

[ReeferMadness]

Or from the sides or front.....the police wouldn't be able to see through the canopy, into the cab, so would fan out to either sides. As to missing, who knows, but we can't see, when he takes off, the passenger side or front of the truck.

There are no police in front of the truck. They are limited to fanning out by the banks of snow on the side of the road. They fan out but only a little.

Admit it - there is no way that 120 shots were fired. That's ridiculous.

[Derek 2.0]

When I wear a suit jacket, I keep my wallet in my left inside pocket and draw it out with my right hand. Trying to reach to a right inside pocket with a right hand is almost impossible.

Jacket pocket? Of course, and that would make sense if he were wearing a shoulder holster.....but doesn't explain why he was reaching down to his waist with both hands.

[Derek 2.0]

Here is a car with 137 shots fired at it. Compare that with the truck.

Do you think the Baltimore police have better weapons/aim than the FBI/Oregon State Police?

Could be, but then most of the holes in the windows look like they were blown out with 12 gauges.

[Derek 2.0]

There are no police in front of the truck. They are limited to fanning out by the banks of snow on the side of the road. They fan out but only a little.

Of course there aren't police in front of the truck, that would be a Darwin award..........fanning out to the sides to cover people inside a car is standard .....watch any dash cam footage or COPS.

Admit it - there is no way that 120 shots were fired. That's ridiculous.

Not at all, for a dozen plus officers at the roadblock, that is nothing.......in fairness though, I don't know how she would count an exact number.

[Derek 2.0]

There is clearly a red laser dot on the roof of the truck. If it's not a guy with a rifle, what is it?

Missed this......Could be a rifle or a handgun, but is from the four plus officers behind the truck and the body, covering the other guys leaving the truck.

Again, its not from a helicopter, the helicopter is miles above the road, and only in the movies snipers shoot from helicopters.