B.C. condo language dispute sparks human rights complaint (merged with

[WestCanMan]

In Canada we have "official languages" for conducting "official business" and it shouldn't take long to get an injunction preventing the strata council from conducting official business in Mandarin.

This is a dangerous precedent that they are setting and I don't really care about the feelings of the strata council, they know this is an english speaking country.

[Machjo]

In Canada we have "official languages" for conducting "official business" and it shouldn't take long to get an injunction preventing the strata council from conducting official business in Mandarin.

This is a dangerous precedent that they are setting and I don't really care about the feelings of the strata council, they know this is an english speaking country.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms makes English and French official in Federal Government institutions, public education Canada-wide, and in those of the Government of New Nrunswick.

BC has no official language if I am correct, English merely being its de facto language.

[Machjo]

As for Canada being an English-speaking country, I couldn't survive in most of Quebec without French given their high-school EFL knowledge

[WestCanMan]

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms makes English and French official in Federal Government institutions, public education Canada-wide, and in those of the Government of New Nrunswick.

BC has no official language if I am correct, English merely being its de facto language.

The decisions of strata councils have legal implications, and matters of law are conducted in our official languages. BC does not lack an official language lol. The BC Supreme Court is not going to conduct any hearings in Mandarin, and it's no small thing to allow any new languages to be considered official.

We would need to have mandarin and punjabi writing on all our food labels, etc if we were to make those languages official and it's detrimental to the country as a whole to hamper the effective communication among canadians.

[TimG]

The decisions of strata councils have legal implications, and matters of law are conducted in our official languages.

This is what this thread is about. People can use whatever language they want for private communication but government sanctioned bodies like Strata Councils have to meet more standards. That is why I am not bothered by Chinese only signs but am bothered by a Mandarin only strata council. Edited December 27, 2015 by TimG

[Machjo]

The decisions of strata councils have legal implications, and matters of law are conducted in our official languages. BC does not lack an official language lol. The BC Supreme Court is not going to conduct any hearings in Mandarin, and it's no small thing to allow any new languages to be considered official.

We would need to have mandarin and punjabi writing on all our food labels, etc if we were to make those languages official and it's detrimental to the country as a whole to hamper the effective communication among canadians.

I think you'remind confusing an official language with a de facto language of government administration. Though I do not believe BC has an official language (though please correct me by linking to the appropriate law), English is its de facto language of government administration. Chinese and Punjabi aren't. This means the BC Government uses Englishould as a convention, not because any law requires it to.

The US Federal Government and the Government of THE UK have no official language either.

As for languages on food labeling, that is a Federal responsibility, so that must be in French and English in most cases.

Now we could ask the qiestion: should BC adopt an official language? But it does not have one at present.

[Machjo]

That said, BC might have certain laws requiring interaction with the Government in English in certain cases, and this might apply to making its strata bylaws available in English. I don't know.

But that is not the same as a comprehensive Charter like Quebec's French Language Charter or the Official Languages Act. We'really talking here about disconnected laws containing ad hoc article requieting English.

[TimG]

This means the BC Government uses Englishould as a convention, not because any law requires it to.

There is no "official" language because no one thought stating the obvious was necessary. The same with the US and UK. That does not change the fact that if you go to court the proceedings will be in English and all laws are written in English. This makes English the only relevant language when it comes to legal matters covered by BC laws.

[WestCoastRunner]

There is no "official" language because no one thought stating the obvious was necessary. The same with the US and UK. That does not change the fact that if you go to court the proceedings will be in English and all laws are written in English. This makes English the only relevant language when it comes to legal matters covered by BC laws.

We also need to remember that cases have been thrown out if the appropriate translators are not found for the non English speaking defendant. So yes, English is the official language spoken in court but we can't guarantee defendants speak English and if they don't have access to translators, so much for BC laws.

[Machjo]

There is no "official" language because no one thought stating the obvious was necessary. The same with the US and UK. That does not change the fact that if you go to court the proceedings will be in English and all laws are written in English. This makes English the only relevant language when it comes to legal matters covered by BC laws.

What is "obvious" to a monolingual Enhlish-speaker might not always be "obvious" to others with a very different experience.

We do have to avoid ethnocentrism here. If it were so "obvious," there would be no challenge in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, adopting a clearly-defined official language makes sense, and BC should do just that so as to make it explicitly clear in law what is "obvious" and what isn't, or what is acceptable and what isn't.

Personally, I'd adopt one official language of Government administration. You want to deal with the Government, you'll have to do it I English or hire your own certified interpreter.

Otherwise the private sector should be free to respond to the local, national, and global markets.

[TimG]

We also need to remember that cases have been thrown out if the appropriate translators are not found for the non English speaking defendant.

This is only fair because an accused has a right to a fair trial but the proceedings ARE in English as are the laws which the court uses to determine guilt. This makes English the legally relevant language and all other languages only some into play if an accused cannot understand English. Edited December 27, 2015 by TimG

[Machjo]

This is only fair because an accused has a right to a fair trial but the proceedings ARE in English as are the laws which the court uses to determine guilt. This makes English the legally relevant language and all other languages only some into play if an accused cannot understand English.

Actually the Canadians Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the Deaf and those who don't understand legal proceedings to an interpreter in their language, whatever it might be.

[TimG]

What is "obvious" to a monolingual Enhlish-speaker might not always be "obvious" to others with a very different experience.

Sorry, no relativism applies here. People should not need a law to tell them what languages a society uses for its legal and political processes. You live in BC then you can conduct business in other languages if you deal only with people that speak that language but as soon as you have to deal with the broader society you need to know English. That includes government but it also includes dealing with your neighbors.

[Machjo]

Sorry, no relativism applies here. People should not need a law to tell them what languages a society uses for its legal and political processes. You live in BC then you can conduct business in other languages if you deal only with people that speak that language but as soon as you have to deal with the broader society you need to know English. That includes government but it also includes dealing with your neighbors.

I live in the Province of Quebec and think Bill 101 goes too far by infringing on the linguistic freedom of the private sector. If a business wants to advertise only in Klingon, it should be free to do so.

I won't buy there, but that's my choice. Likewise if I should sign a strata agreement in Klingon, then why should I then be entitled to service in English or French?

If I sign the agreement in English, that's a different matter.

Bill 101's excesses are a reason for Quebec's economic woes.

A single official language of government administration I agree with, but not a language imposed beyond that.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Machjo

[TimG]

I live in the Province of Quebec and think I'll 101 goes too far by infringing on the linguistic freedom of the private sector. If a business wants to advertise only in Klingon, it should be free to do so.

I agree.

I won't buy there, but that's my choice. Likewise if I should sign a strata agreement in Klingon, then why should I then be entitled to service in English?

I don't agree because joining or leaving a strata is a major life decision which means you can't put up discriminatory barriers for people already living there or who may want to join in the future. Allowing non-English stratas simply encourages the development of ghettos which is the last thing we want for a healthy society. Edited December 27, 2015 by TimG

[WestCoastRunner]

I agree.

I don't agree because joining or leaving a strata is a major life decision which means you can't put up discriminatory barriers for people already living there or who may want to join in the future. Allowing non-English stratas simply encourages the development of ghettos which is the last thing we want for a healthy society.

Are Mandarin speaking complexes ghetto as opposed to Cantonese complexes? Are French speaking complexes ghetto? I don't understand your last statement.

[WestCoastRunner]

I agree.

I don't agree because joining or leaving a strata is a major life decision which means you can't put up discriminatory barriers for people already living there or who may want to join in the future. Allowing non-English stratas simply encourages the development of ghettos which is the last thing we want for a healthy society.

Is this complex we are discussing, a ghetto?

[TimG]

Are Mandarin speaking complexes ghetto as opposed to Cantonese complexes? Are French speaking complexes ghetto? I don't understand your last statement.

If strata councils are allowed to conduct business in Mandarin the message becomes: "if you don't speak Mandarin don't buy into this complex". This, over time, will create monolingual/monocultural minority communities otherwise known as 'ghettos'. We want policies that encourage people of different backgrounds to mix and be neighbors. This also means we need to encourage a common language. Edited December 28, 2015 by TimG

[WestCoastRunner]

If strata councils are allowed to conduct business in Mandarin the message becomes: "if you don't speak Mandarin don't buy into this complex". This, over time, will create monolingual/monocultural minority communities otherwise known as a 'ghettos'. We want policies that encourage people of different backgrounds to mix and be neighbors. This also means we need to encourage a common language.

I take offence with the word ghetto. Look up the meaning in the urban dictionary. Canada has plenty of neighbourhoods with a dominant culture besides caucasian. It doesn't make them ghettos.

Sounds to me like this is what you are against.

[TimG]

I take offence with the word ghetto. Look up the meaning in the urban dictionary. Canada has plenty of neighbourhoods with a dominant culture besides caucasian. It doesn't make them ghettos.

Try a real dictionary:

ghet·to

noun

noun: ghetto; plural noun: ghettoes; plural noun: ghettos

1.a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.

historical

the Jewish quarter in a city.

"the Warsaw Ghetto"

an isolated or segregated group or area.

"the relative security of the gay ghetto"

There is no requirement that a ghetto be a slum. What it is is a region of the city where people who are not of the group in question choose not to live. We do NOT want structural barriers which encourage the creation of ghettos. We want people to feel they can move into any neighborhood and feel welcome no matter what their background. A common language for shared resource management is an essential. Edited December 28, 2015 by TimG

[WestCoastRunner]

Try a real dictionary:

There is no requirement that a ghetto be a slum. What it is is a region of the city where people who are not of the group in question choose not to live. We do NOT want structural barriers which encourage the creation of ghettos. We want people to feel they can move into any neighborhood and feel welcome no matter what their background. A common language for shared resource management is an essential.

You are in denial if you think neighbourhoods won't be created because of their natural bonding

[TimG]

You are in denial if you think neighbourhoods won't be created because of their natural bonding

I never said there was not a natural tendency for people with shared cultural backgrounds to congregate together. What I said is the government should work to prevent structural barriers such as a strata using a non-English language for business from aggravating the natural human tendency to seek the familiar.

I really don't understand why the principal of encouraging people from different backgrounds to be neighbors is not something you believe in.

Edited December 28, 2015 by TimG

[WestCoastRunner]

I never said there was not a natural tendency for people with shared cultural backgrounds to congregate together. What I said is the government should work to prevent structural barriers such as a strata using a non-English language for business from aggravating the natural human tendency to seek the familiar.

Living as a white guy in Richmond, I think you have more of a hidden agenda here.

[Guest]

Living as a white guy in Richmond, I think you have more of a hidden agenda here.

Do you think it's the natural bonding thing?

[TimG]

Living as a white guy in Richmond, I think you have more of a hidden agenda here.

Classic lefty smear. When you can't address the arguments you attack the person. Living in Richmond does give a perspective that others do not have but that does not make my arguments in invalid.

As I said: I really don't understand why the principal of encouraging people from different backgrounds to be neighbors is not something you believe in.