Home grown non-Muslim related terrorist attacks

[bush_cheney2004]

Anything can be drafted into the "home grown terrorism" narrative....like residential schools in Canada...backed by government through the mostly Catholic church.

Edited November 30, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

Hardly, as it is quite straightforward to develop the "abortion is terrorism" concept using the exact same language and narrative(s) of those who assail other practices and policies.

No, it actually isn't.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, it actually isn't.

Sure it is....something that is routinely done today...rendering the original and narrow political context moot.

Anti-abortion "terrorists" ? Fine, but don't pretend there are not others for many other causes.

Edited November 30, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

Anything can be drafted into the "home grown terrorism" narrative....like residential schools in Canada...backed by government through the mostly Catholic church.

Well yeah, most people can tell the difference between right and wrong - there was an even more succinct narrative some hippy wandering in the desert dreamed up a couple of thousand years ago you see.

I believe he was actually killed for being a terrorist.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well yeah, most people can tell the difference between right and wrong - there was an even more succinct narrative some hippy wandering in the desert dreamed up a couple of thousand years ago you see.

I'm sure he was a big abortion rights activist too.

[Smeelious]

I'd actually like to see you frame abortion as terrorism. I'd hardly call it straightforward, unless you mean saying litterally

"Abortion is Terrorism!!!!111"

Which isn't especially compelling, and that's what Archbishop Angelo Amato did...Called it terrorism with actually framing it as such.

[msj]

So now this terrorist who shot up the PP clinic is a "protestor" according to Republican candidate Carly Fiorina:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/29/gop-candidates-condemn-planned-parenthood-shooting-but-dismiss-link-to-antiabortion-rhetoric/?postshare=4041448819069844&tid=ss_tw

So, when it's Islamists committing terrorism Obama can't use the word "Islam" and when it's a Christian fundamentalist doing it we have Republicans who also can't call a spade a spade.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'd actually like to see you frame abortion as terrorism. I'd hardly call it straightforward, unless you mean saying litterally

It has already been done....a vulnerable, unprotected class subject to death and torture for personal and political objective(s) by individuals, groups, and their ideology. That really isn't the point here, it is just an example of how to invoke the "terrorism" label when desired as part of the modern, partisan narrative.

[jacee]

Having an abortion is not terrorism. Going into an abortion clinic to shoot it up is homicide and it is border-line terrorism. If its part of an organized campaign to warn other clinics to shut down, its terrorism. If its accompanied by a flurry of political statements, probably. If it is used to advance a personal opinion as to abortion, yes its terrorism. Its a type of terrorism. Violence used as a vehicle to express political opinion is terrorism.

Agreed. And I would go further and say that such violence is an attempt not just to express an opinion, but to impose that opinion on others, and in particular not just against clinic personnel but to terrorize all women into not having abortions.

.

[jacee]

So now this terrorist who shot up the PP clinic is a "protestor" according to Republican candidate Carly Fiorina:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/29/gop-candidates-condemn-planned-parenthood-shooting-but-dismiss-link-to-antiabortion-rhetoric/?postshare=4041448819069844&tid=ss_tw

So, when it's Islamists committing terrorism Obama can't use the word "Islam" and when it's a Christian fundamentalist doing it we have Republicans who also can't call a spade a spade.

Interesting.

Most "protesters" do not appreciate those who do violence in their name as it besmirches the whole group.

That Republicans embrace them as legitimate 'protesters' is very ... interesting.

.

[kimmy]

So now this terrorist who shot up the PP clinic is a "protestor" according to Republican candidate Carly Fiorina:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/29/gop-candidates-condemn-planned-parenthood-shooting-but-dismiss-link-to-antiabortion-rhetoric/?postshare=4041448819069844&tid=ss_tw

So, when it's Islamists committing terrorism Obama can't use the word "Islam" and when it's a Christian fundamentalist doing it we have Republicans who also can't call a spade a spade.

Fiorina is one of the most flagrant offenders at inflammatory language on this issue, with her incendiary and wholly fictional account of stuff she imagines she saw in that video.

Ted Cruz is apparently claiming that Robert Dear was a transgender leftist activist.

Mike Huckabee was at least forthright in calling this an act of domestic terrorism, completely defying my expectations.

-k

[Rue]

Abortion in the US is a very hot button issue. There is zero doubt a huge chunk of Republican vote support will come from traditional religious people who are against abortion but in the US anti abortionists are also prominent in the Democratic party and always have been. The so called Southern Baptist belt that supported Democrat senators was mostly anti abortion.

Catholics who are more likely to be anti abortion have been just as strong in support of the Democrats. For example many Latin-Hispanic Americans who vote Democrat are Catholic and against abortion.

Its a myth to just call it Republican.

In Canada our number one religious group still by far is Catholic. Yes they are more likely to vote against abortion but they voted Liberal as much as Conservative. In the past Liberals in power in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, PEI. Quebec and Ontario, New Brunswick skirted around the issue very carefully.

This is a political issue that takes strange turns that can blow up on either left or right politicians equally. Planned Parenthood a darling of the Left has been called racist . You never know where the issue heads.

Abortion and euthanasia are two hot button issues that politicians are petrified of having to discuss no matter what their leaning or affiliation.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Rue

[eyeball]

Interesting.

Most "protesters" do not appreciate those who do violence in their name as it besmirches the whole group.

That Republicans embrace them as legitimate 'protesters' is very ... interesting.

.

These Western conservatives are no different than the huge pool of Muslim moderates that conservatives like to accuse of never speaking out.

It's interesting but not surprising.

[eyeball]

Its a myth to just call it Republican.

It's far more accurate to call it conservative.

[Argus]

Fiorina is one of the most flagrant offenders at inflammatory language on this issue, with her incendiary and wholly fictional account of stuff she imagines she saw in that video.

Ted Cruz is apparently claiming that Robert Dear was a transgender leftist activist.

Mike Huckabee was at least forthright in calling this an act of domestic terrorism, completely defying my expectations.

-k

I agree. I saw the same interview, and was mildly surprised, though of course he had to add that 'millions of babies' were killed in these clinics every year. He didn't want to abandon his reputation as a raving loony.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Argus

[Wilber]

It's far more accurate to call it conservative.

No, there are many who would call themselves conservative who are also pro choice.

[Guest]

No, there are many who would call themselves conservative who are also pro choice.

Me, for instance. More pro choice than many who would call themselves liberal.

[kimmy]

If there were any lingering doubts about Robert Dear's movitves...

The accused Colorado Planned Parenthood shooter yelled, “I am a warrior for the babies” during an outburst as charges against him were read in court.

...

“I am guilty,” Dear declared in no uncertain terms. “There will be no trial.”

...

“Planned Parenthood and my lawyer are in cahoots because they don’t want the truth out,” Dear said.

...

“You’ll never know what I saw in that clinic,” he added. “Atrocities. The babies. That’s what they want to seal.”

“You’ll never know the amount of blood I saw in that place,” he said at one point, KCNC-TV reported.

...

Sorry, Fox, not a bank-robbery gone bad. Sorry, Ted Cruz, not a transgendered leftist.

-k

[Rue]

"jacee, on 29 Nov 2015 - 6:23 PM, said:

That is irrelevant.
Criminal Code:

Terrorist activity:

an act or omission, in or outside Canada,
(i) that is committed
(A) in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause, and
( in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security,

Setting fire to a mosque is not some random arson.
It is a political/religious attack.
It is intended to create fear for their security in Canada among Muslims."

If an arsonist burns down a church, synagogue, mosque, it does not necessarily mean they were intimidating the public with the regard to its security.

Most arsonists have a sexual disorder. They express their repressed sexual desires through the lighting of fires in public places. The fire symbolizes them releasing their repressed sexual feelings.

Sorry but most arsonists may have sexual disorders but they are very rarely terrorists.

As well the majority of people who vandalize or desecrate houses of worship are passive aggressive and criminals but not terrorist.

In criminal law to determine if an act is terrorist one needs to examine the entire act for evidence it was intended to send a political/religuous message using the act of violence as the way to express that particular political/ religious opinion.

If the act of shooting up the abortion clinic was presented by the perpetrator as part of a presentation by him as to his religious views or political views broadcast to the public, then yes it would be terrorist. Since the perpetrator at this time broadcast no message to the public or anyone, his motivation is still under investigation. What he did may be terrorist or it might be motivated by a personal reason.

The investigation of the abortion attack will look for evidence or terrorism. i.e., whether political/religious messages were sent before or after the attack to the public at large, whether the act is connected to a series of other attacks being planned that will be accompanied by messages of religious or political opinion,.

There is a fine line between engaging in crime, and a crime that is defined as a hate crime or terrorism or all three or just two.

To determine the apppropriate legal c category one must look at each fact situation and determine the relevant and material evidence to then see what it can be shown to constitute as per the definitions set out in the Criminal Code.

No, spitting at a Mosque is not terrorism and saying it trivializes terrorism.

The degree of violence, the target of violence has much to do with determining if it constituted terrorism.

Spitting at someone is an assualt and battery. if done at a group of people followed by a slur, it might constitute a hate crime, but the Crown will not pursue hate crimes unless there is a huge public demand, or the nature of the crime requires a strong statement.

An idiot spitting at people, and calling them slurs probably would constitute an assault and battery. If the attack was done with a knife, and it made contact, it then probably escalates sufficiently in nature to constitute a hate crime if the motive of the attacker is evidenced by his slurs.

As a general rule. to constitute terrorism there must be violence or the threat of violence sufficient in extent to cause harm to more than one person followed by a political or religious message using the threat as the agent to get the attention or capture the attention of people to be able to then broadcast that message.

Some of you are playing fast and furious because you get upset that you believe Muslims are treated differently then non Muslims when describing terrorism.

Being Muslim, or any other religious member, does not mean you hide behind your religion and use it as an excuse or rationalization to trivialize or deny what Muslim terrorists have done. No this is not spitting. No this is not sticking your tongue at someone.

We all know what terrorism is. Some of you want to play semantics please continue.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Rue

[kimmy]

Most arsonists have a sexual disorder. They express their repressed sexual desires through the lighting of fires in public places. The fire symbolizes them releasing their repressed sexual feelings.

Cite?

In criminal law to determine if an act is terrorist one needs to examine the entire act for evidence it was intended to send a political/religuous message using the act of violence as the way to express that particular political/ religious opinion.

If the act of shooting up the abortion clinic was presented by the perpetrator as part of a presentation by him as to his religious views or political views broadcast to the public, then yes it would be terrorist. Since the perpetrator at this time broadcast no message to the public or anyone, his motivation is still under investigation. What he did may be terrorist or it might be motivated by a personal reason.

Given Robert Dear's statements at his arraignment, how can you possibly claim that his motive is unclear or pretend there's any doubt as to whether this was an act of terrorism?

We all know what terrorism is. Some of you want to play semantics please continue.

If you're trying to argue that Robert Dear's rampage wasn't an act of terrorism because it doesn't match the description you just provided, then you're the one trying to play semantics.

-k