The Black Family in the age of Mass Incarceration

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/the-black-family-in-the-age-of-mass-incarceration/403246/

Very long and deliberate examination of the sociologies of race and emprisonment in America.

Very interesting points here. I'm only 1/2 way though but posting it as there is much to discuss. It may appear as a condemnation of a certain flavour of American politics, however this piece is no less damning of American liberal history, actions, and inaction in this area:

Whatever the slings and arrows Moynihan suffered in the 1960s, his vision dominates liberal political discourse today. One hears Moynihan in Barack Obama’s cultural critique of black fathers and black families. Strains of Moynihan’s thinking ran through Bill Clinton’s presidency. “We cannot … repair the American community and restore the American family until we provide the structure, the values, the discipline, and the reward that work gives,” President Clinton told a group of black church leaders in Memphis in 1993. He argued for a policy initiative on three fronts—jobs, family, and crime—but the country’s commitment to each of these propositions proved unequal. Incarceration soared during Clinton’s two terms.

[Argus]

There's no question the vicious cycle of children having children, raising those children in poverty amid gangs and drugs and violence, and then them having children, is a self perpetuating tragedy. The breakdown of what used to be strong Black families has added to the mess of poverty, and has been exacerbated by drugs, especially cheap ones like crack. The culture of Black America is often the culture of nihilism. So few put much emphasis on education, because, meh, what's the point since you won't get a job anyway, because, because... that's just the way it is. And what's left then but drugs and sex? It's a defeated culture, one where it's young lacking strong fathers, look for heros in all the wrong places, like drug dealers, gang leaders and gangsta rappers. Not because they're moral, but because they have power, which means respect. The very word 'respect' has become a watchword for violence as young black men strut like roosters and resort to violence as the only means they know of to gain 'respect'.

I have no idea what the answer is other than to convince young black teens that if they can't refrain they should at least practice birth control. But that nihilist attitude prevalent in ghettos tells them there's no point in an education anyway. And lacking affection, lacking the certainty of permanent relationships with men as opposed to quick liaisons, lacking hope of any meaningful job, having children at least give them someone who will love them, and give them something to do with their lives - all paid for courtesy of the state.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just what "Black Americans" need...more expert opinions from "White Canadians". "Black teens" face many of the same socio-economic conditions that have contributed to the rise/spikes in teen pregnancy seen recently in Canada.

Edited November 29, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCoastRunner]

Just what "Black Americans" need...more expert opinions from "White Canadians". "Black teens" face many of the same socio-economic conditions that have contributed to the rise/spikes in teen pregnancy seen recently in Canada.

Judging by the information I'm reading from Americans, many Canadians are far more informed on the socio-economic conditions of the black Americans. And I would compare it to the Native Canadians.

[bush_cheney2004]

Easy to explain why some Canadians would be more informed about "black American" conditions than their own....it shows the power of American media. Those same Canadians are ignorant about similar conditions in Canada for more than just Natives.

[On Guard for Thee]

Easy to explain why some Canadians would be more informed about "black American" conditions than their own....it shows the power of American media. Those same Canadians are ignorant about similar conditions in Canada for more than just Natives.

Assumptions abound eh?

[WestCoastRunner]

Easy to explain why some Canadians would be more informed about "black American" conditions than their own....it shows the power of American media. Those same Canadians are ignorant about similar conditions in Canada for more than just Natives.

The OP is about imprisonment of black Americans. Start a new thread about Canadians if you want.

[bush_cheney2004]

The OP is about imprisonment of black Americans. Start a new thread about Canadians if you want.

Meh....that requires an acceptance of racist ("Negro") frameworks and definitions controlled by the usual suspects. Canadians just parrot and continue the same narrative from American media.

Comparing a single socio-economic indicator (e.g. teen pregnancy) between nations challenges OP assumptions....Canada is fair game.

Edited November 29, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[jbg]

I have no idea what the answer is other than to convince young black teens that if they can't refrain they should at least practice birth control. But that nihilist attitude prevalent in ghettos tells them there's no point in an education anyway. And lacking affection, lacking the certainty of permanent relationships with men as opposed to quick liaisons, lacking hope of any meaningful job, having children at least give them someone who will love them, and give them something to do with their lives - all paid for courtesy of the state.

One of the reasons I am deeply disappointed in Obama is that he would have been ideally placed to deliver the messages to which you refer. Instead he has chosen to stir the pot, and validate feelings of victimhood. The politics of a typical ward healer in Chicago. Not of a President, much less the first black President.

[Scott Mayers]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/the-black-family-in-the-age-of-mass-incarceration/403246/

Very long and deliberate examination of the sociologies of race and emprisonment in America.

Very interesting points here. I'm only 1/2 way though but posting it as there is much to discuss. It may appear as a condemnation of a certain flavour of American politics, however this piece is no less damning of American liberal history, actions, and inaction in this area:

This is interesting....but 75 pages long. I'll need to have time to read before responding in depth but seem to understand some of the concerns as I think it relates to our circumstances here in Canada too. I like so far that Moynihan appears to be suggesting an indirect approach to solve the problems associated with poverty of an ethnic class by focusing on its logical class (poverty) rather than to deal directly with one's cultural background, something I too find problematic here with Multiculturalism .

As to the suggestion dealing with focusing on getting men to have sustenance is more about the fact that in all of our world we still treat "women" as a social class combined with the innocence of the class, "children". This universal cultural bias is what contributes to the problem. For instance, if we consider the population of those incarcerated in jails, the more common denominator involves single parenthood of which women are the ones who often take this role. Should this not suggest that even women (the single mothers) are as much a contributor to the very stereotypes against both men and women AND that since they are the ones raising the men who end up incarcerated, are they NOT likely a direct contributors to the problems?

I'll have to read this whole article before fairly commenting on Moynihan. But thanks, Michael, for introducing this one. I think it may help in making sense of some of the other threads discussing similar concerns of many issues of discrimination/prejudice.

[Michael Hardner]

One of the reasons I am deeply disappointed in Obama is that he would have been ideally placed to deliver the messages to which you refer. Instead he has chosen to stir the pot, and validate feelings of victimhood.

I have heard this before, but I'm not sure where it comes from. For sure, Obama has both criticized "black culture" and "white racism" as per the OP:

In their efforts to strengthen the black family, Clinton and Moynihan—and Obama, too—aspired to combine government social programs with cultural critiques of ghetto pathology (the “both/and” notion, as Obama has termed it), and they believed that Americans were capable of taking in critiques of black culture and white racism at once. But this underestimated the weight of the country’s history.

[Argus]

One of the reasons I am deeply disappointed in Obama is that he would have been ideally placed to deliver the messages to which you refer. Instead he has chosen to stir the pot, and validate feelings of victimhood. The politics of a typical ward healer in Chicago. Not of a President, much less the first black President.

I agree he has done little. At the same time we have to be cognizant of the fact he is faced with a congress controlled by people who probably wish all minorities in American would get a fatal disease and die overnight. They don't give a crap about the problems of the inner cities, or of Blacks, Latinos or any other minority aside from the ones living in gated communities.

[Argus]

I came across this while surfing and thought it was really kind of weird, kind of racist, or would have been if this wasn't a black guy, and kind of in tune to the subject of this topic re the Black family. It seems this guy's perspective is that the problem of the Black family is due to Black women, who lack discipline, lack self-control, and are lousy mothers. The video has an intro, then there's some video of a confrontation between police and a bunch of Black women, then there's this guy's own perspective where he basically says that this is indicative of the lousy mothering done by black women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQnA5LZ4z3c

[Michael Hardner]

jbg didn't reply to my response to his post, which Argus has quoted.

[WestCoastRunner]

I came across this while surfing and thought it was really kind of weird, kind of racist, or would have been if this wasn't a black guy, and kind of in tune to the subject of this topic re the Black family. It seems this guy's perspective is that the problem of the Black family is due to Black women, who lack discipline, lack self-control, and are lousy mothers. The video has an intro, then there's some video of a confrontation between police and a bunch of Black women, then there's this guy's own perspective where he basically says that this is indicative of the lousy mothering done by black women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQnA5LZ4z3c

It's so funny how you find these videos (just surfing)?? I don't know why you would even post his videos. He has a hate on for black women, mostly because he got sent to jail for not paying child support.

[Argus]

It's so funny how you find these videos (just surfing)?? I don't know why you would even post his videos. He has a hate on for black women, mostly because he got sent to jail for not paying child support.

I don't know his history. I found the videos while following a trail of police arrest videos on you tube. But it's certainly true that one of the problems with the Black family is that it tends to be headed by a young woman who got pregnant while still a teenager, with a casual boyfriend, has little education, and then goes on welfare for the rest of her life.

And yes, as always, speaking in generalities.

Here's another fun video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVXyERZWbIg

Edited December 7, 2015 by Argus

[cannuck]

Judging by the information I'm reading from Americans, many Canadians are far more informed on the socio-economic conditions of the black Americans. And I would compare it to the Native Canadians.

I travel back and fourth between our Western Canadian and New York offices, and that is a comparison I have made often. And, NO, I am not a city guy who has no idea what an aboriginal life on reserve is - I have lived and worked in the bush for many years, and my kids are last generation eligible for a treaty number.

Human nature is that you will adjust your opinion of what is "normal" to your surroundings. That is how genocide is pulled off, that is how the 90% unemployed on reserve sit there watching outside contractors repair the damage or build what they destroyed or will destroy next, it is how we end up paying $500k for a $50k non-revenue asset (read, HOME). Life in the ghettos of big city USA is surprisingly similar to life on a remote reserve in Canada. To blend in you become violent to earn credibility, you use drugs because everyone else does, sex and violence are commonplace - as is unplanned parenthood (not much else to do), single mothers, inter-generational poverty, almost total unemployment in "normal" jobs and almost total dependency on the state give almost exactly the same results in both cases.

[Rue]

I question the premises of the book and books like it. They are elitist assumptions from people who do not live in the environment they claim to be experts on which to me renders their observations at times trite and in fact patronizing, bigoted.

In that sense I agree with Bush. I also say that because I worked and still work in the legal system. I long ago stopped looking at crime as "black" crime or "white' crime.

One one level all of us working in the system, know that aboriginals are the heaviest represented in prisons after conviction and blacks are a stopped and arrested far more than natives or whites. We don't need books to know that.

We also know certain black youth are more likely to be unemployed and therefore on the street at night and associated with gangs and the ones shaken down over and over again.

We know aboriginal peoples struggle with mental illness, substance abuse and drug addiction and something is seriously wrong in their societies, they are like whales beaching themselves on shore to die because their environments are killing them. We know that, we know slow mass suicide when we see it. We know its a reaction to being unable to live in our environment.

The point is if someone is homeless, drunk, mentally ill, they freeze to death the same way on the street.

Whether they are black or white, they get beaten by their parents or raped by their parents the same way and they bleed the same colour.

So we really do not have the time to pay much attention to elite sheltered suburban people writing cliche books with cliche statistics.

When you are a suicide prevention worker, social worker, health clinic nurse, cop, mediator, legal aid lawyer, crown attorney, Judge, teacher, you are caught in the moment and you have to react in the moment on a crisis basis.

You can't fix the world or engage in cliches or come up with idiot pat generalizations about society-its you and the person in the crisis, whether he/she be someone on the street, in your class room, coming into a clinic or emergency room or you are finding them under a bridge half dead- on a street patrol you have to deal with it then and there.

When a kid runs away from home because he;s being sexually molested and walks out of the Dundas Street bus terminal in Toronto, the stats mean sweet phack all. Keeping him away from pimps waiting for these chickens to come out of the roost is the battle. We can't post a cop at the bus terminal doing chicken hawk duty. How the pimp will just move a block down.

The pimps just hang there watching for their next food supply to come out. They pose as caring fathers and within days have them turning tricks.

Kids that are unemployed sell drugs. Kids brought up with no strong family unit and anyone to tell them they mean something, turn to gangs as their new family and that gang reinforces their need to belong and feel like they count and the drug trade is business.

The stats mean sheeyit.

I came to learn long ago that crime, mental illness, the underbelly of society, it effects everyone the same way. It all comes down to coping skills, environment, genetic predisposition and no generalization can change that.

Excuse me but social sciences which I have had to study for my professions is a crock. It is full of trite generalizations. Theories.

Reality is far different.

Ask us who work in the system. When we look into someone's psyche... you get glimpses of the demon... but never any full vision and so any solutions are fleeting and temporary. Your constantly chasing the demon after the fact.

The best these books do are to try make that chase sound reasonable and understandable. No its like trying to squeeze jello or hold water in your hands. Evil, chaos, crime, mental illness, the demon, sounds like it can be explained with cause and effect but it can't really. As quick as you come up with a theory its like squeezing jello-it slips through your hands.

The best you can do with the demon is slow it down at times by sabotaging its food supply i.e., poverty, sex, drugs.

Social science leads to degrees they give you and you place after your name. I have 5. They are just badges that give me social permission to chase demons. No more, no less.

You ask me, badges don't mean much to demons. They just laugh at them. The joke is on us with the badges if we take them too seriously. The fate of humanity does not rest with the badge but the battle within each individual to contain their demons. By the time the badge wearers get there to contain the aftermath of the battle its usually too late and all we really do is clean the stains so the next morning's rush hour doesn't slip on the blood.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Rue

[cannuck]

Rue: Thanks for taking the time and trouble to make such an excellent post. I wish people with your experience, insight and attitude were more involved and respected in policy and education.