Is University Becoming a Waste of Time?

[kimmy]

What you've just said is complete unadulterated drivel.

Kimmy, Six munts agoo I cud nut evin spill engineer, now I is one.
Sure but it takes creativity and intelligence to survive some of the insanity engineering students brought down on themselves.
Been there had the T shirt.
-1=e^ipi nails it; academia is stupidity personified, self righteous and ignorant fools stroking each other's egos
There is no real world grounding any more.
At one time European Engineering students had to have a ticket in the trades, before the universities would accept them.
Then they were encouraged to work school holidays in the field.
Now they don't see real world until certified.
The ever relaxing standards have produced ignorant arrogant entitled masters, who cannot conceive their wisdom is not..
Soon the professional engineering associations will be seeking immunity from prosecution, rather than up their game.

Kimmy, I can tell you are young and don't have the real world experience to understand the nuances of this thread. But you will gain understanding as you mature. trust me.

All of this is pure unadulterated drivel. I can tell that you don't know a god damned thing about engineering school or engineering professional associations.

And I can tell that everything you know about university, you learned from reading in the conservative blogosphere.

-k

[Hal 9000]

I know this is anecdotal, but whatever, I will make a point at the end.

In high school I had an english teacher whom i didn't care for much, and I don't suspect he liked me either.

During final exams I was somehow able to ace the test. One major part of the test was Shakespeare (Macbeth, I believe), and it just seemed easy for me. After the test, the whole school was given options to go on several field trips, I chose golfing. Arriving late, I was stuck with the last grouping - the teachers, including my english teacher! After several holes, we started talking and I gave hime the old "why do we have to study shakespeare" routine and proceeded to call him out for not explaining the meaning of the work well enough. He agreed (surprisingly) that knowing Shakespeare wouldn't become a big part of my life and then responded with a comment something like this; You see Harold, there are times when a teacher needs to help you find answers and then there are times when a teacher needs to teach you how to learn, and most of what I do is help you learn how to learn.

Of all the things that teacher taught me (and I had him 3 straight years), the best lesson was that day at the golf course - just learn how to learn.

Now, the point is; In today's world teachers seem to have decided that they need to tell students what to think and why and have gotten away from the above concept. The evidence is out there, and as I mentioned earlier, my daughter is now living it.

P.S - The above story is true to the best of my memory.

[msj]

When I spent a good part of the '90's at University the same kind of rhetoric was being said then.

I took the liberal arts, even some women's history courses, before heading to business and accounting since law became a turn off.

I agree with Kimmy on this.

Lots of hyperbole using extreme examples to extrapolate to the general population.

Sure, I remember the student union jerks being politically correct asshats and running the student union in a way that would make Stalin proud.

Which is why 90% of us ignored them and their infantile antics.

Unless you have direct experience with multiple teachers indoctrinating students at multiple universities I think this is more of the same conservative "Closing of the American Mind" crap.

Most students, even when they are taught by an ideological teacher, end up seeing through the nonsense.

If anything, it is beneficial for most students to experience this.

As I recall it: I was getting many different viewpoints from profs, other students, the reading material (although I literally took a liberal arts degree so I was reading everything from St Augustine to Nietzsche) and then the regular people in my life (friends, family, people I worked with).

Getting exposed to the wacky ideas of a couple of profs during this time was interesting in the same way Ben Carson or Trump running for president is interesting: as long as they don't become president (of the university in the case of the profs) then no harm, no foul.

[Hal 9000]

When I spent a good part of the '90's at University the same kind of rhetoric was being said then.

I took the liberal arts, even some women's history courses, before heading to business and accounting since law became a turn off.

I agree with Kimmy on this.

Lots of hyperbole using extreme examples to extrapolate to the general population.

Sure, I remember the student union jerks being politically correct asshats and running the student union in a way that would make Stalin proud.

Which is why 90% of us ignored them and their infantile antics.

Unless you have direct experience with multiple teachers indoctrinating students at multiple universities I think this is more of the same conservative "Closing of the American Mind" crap.

Most students, even when they are taught by an ideological teacher, end up seeing through the nonsense.

If anything, it is beneficial for most students to experience this.

As I recall it: I was getting many different viewpoints from profs, other students, the reading material (although I literally took a liberal arts degree so I was reading everything from St Augustine to Nietzsche) and then the regular people in my life (friends, family, people I worked with).

Getting exposed to the wacky ideas of a couple of profs during this time was interesting in the same way Ben Carson or Trump running for president is interesting: as long as they don't become president (of the university in the case of the profs) then no harm, no foul.

But, those wacky people of the 80's and 90's are now running things. Those radicals are out there and wielding real power. People like the Clintons and Obama, they're also the people who are now elementary and high school teachers. I agree that it's always been there (just look at the history of Marxism - another topic for another day), but I do think it's getting worse all the time.

Also, I don't think people are as smart as you think. Maybe you saw through it, but i see many who buy in hook, line and sinker.

[msj]

Also, I don't think people are as smart as you think. Maybe you saw through it, but i see many who buy in hook, line and sinker.

Let's call a spade a spade: this thread is really about creating bogeymen and then using it as a basis to call people who are ideologically different various names including "unintelligent."

It is an ad hominem troll thread.

[Hal 9000]

Let's call a spade a spade: this thread is really about creating bogeymen and then using it as a basis to call people who are ideologically different various names including "unintelligent."

It is an ad hominem troll thread.

I don't see it that way at all. You're saying most people saw through the indoctrination, but it's clear that university students are conditioned to recognize the designated victim classes as well as the designated oppressors of those victims.

[biotk]

I don't see it that way at all. You're saying most people saw through the indoctrination, but it's clear that university students are conditioned to recognize the designated victim classes as well as the designated oppressors of those victims.

It may be clear to you, but oddly it is not to the people with actual experience in university lately.

[Hal 9000]

It may be clear to you, but oddly it is not to the people with actual experience in university lately.

I assume you're being facetious, but good grief, is their really any discussion that universities are riddled with indoctrination?

[biotk]

I assume you're being facetious, but good grief, is their really any discussion that universities are riddled with indoctrination?

I agree that there is no discussion as to whether universities are riddled with indoctrination. Right-wing sources tell you that is the case and you believe the indoctrination you receive from those sources without question.

[Hal 9000]

I agree that there is no discussion as to whether universities are riddled with indoctrination. Right-wing sources tell you that is the case and you believe the indoctrination you receive from those sources without question.

Uh oh, let me guess, you're in university right now?

[biotk]

Uh oh, let me guess, you're in university right now?

I can do you one better. I have taught classes at a university.

[socialist]

I can do you one better. I have taught classes at a university.

Let us not forget that far too many academics were raised in the very coddled way that they now promote in their classrooms.

[Michael Hardner]

Let us not forget that far too many academics were raised in the very coddled way that they now promote in their classrooms.

Cite ?

[jacee]

Let's call a spade a spade: this thread is really about creating bogeymen and then using it as a basis to call people who are ideologically different various names including "unintelligent."

It is an ad hominem troll thread.

Yup.

You don't have to look far to find the answer to the thread topic:

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lists-and-rankings/best-jobs/is-getting-a-bachelors-degree-still-worth-it/

As Richard Florida, the well-known urban studies academic at the University of Toronto, has argued, the creative classprofessionals, basically, most of whom have degreeshave become an increasingly significant share of the workforce, a trend that shows no sign of stopping.

Indeed, the creative class weathered the recession far better than the working class, according to Floridas data, and degree holders have always faced lower unemployment, even if that advantage was a little less pronounced last year. Sure, not all degrees are equalyoull notice many of our top jobs are in engineeringbut getting one is as good of an idea as its ever been, if not more so.

The topic wasn't posted for information but as a soapbox for uninformed opinions and a continuation of the Harper anti-intelligence agenda.

It suited Harper to dumb his supporters down, so they would obediently answer his dog whistles.

.

Edited November 12, 2015 by jacee

[socialist]

Cite ?

I get out and about, Mike. I live life. My life consists of more than this silly little forum. I talk to many people. I make observations.

[Michael Hardner]

I make observations.

Any observation by a human being comes through your personal lens. Knowing ones' own biases there is a path to elevated wisdom.

I'll take your observations here as your own point of view, then.

[socialist]

Any observation by a human being comes through your personal lens. Knowing ones' own biases there is a path to elevated wisdom.

I'll take your observations here as your own point of view, then.

When was the last time you were in a university classroom?

[Michael Hardner]

When was the last time you were in a university classroom?

As a student ? The 1980s perhaps. But I'm not coming to this discussion saying anything about my personal experiences. You seem to think that's a valid way to generalize over an entire population, but with time you may understand what 'anecdotal' means.

Then again, you could be right too. That's why I asked for a cite: I don't know the answer, and I want to know why you think you do.

[socialist]

Look what is happening at Yale now. These children have no idea how the rest of the country is laughing at them. Yale used to be an institution of higher learning. Today it is merely an expensive day care center for spoiled brats. Sad.

[Michael Hardner]

Look what is happening at Yale now. These children have no idea how the rest of the country is laughing at them. Yale used to be an institution of higher learning. Today it is merely an expensive day care center for spoiled brats. Sad.[/size]

Cite ?

I'm still waiting for a cite on your last claim.

[Black Dog]

Look what is happening at Yale now. These children have no idea how the rest of the country is laughing at them. Yale used to be an institution of higher learning. Today it is merely an expensive day care center for spoiled brats. Sad.

That's a broad brush with which to paint 12,300 students.

[jacee]

Look what is happening at Yale now. These children have no idea how the rest of the country is laughing at them. Yale used to be an institution of higher learning. Today it is merely an expensive day care center for spoiled brats. Sad.

What's happening at Yale now?

.

[biotk]

What's happening at Yale now?

.

The spoiled brats there have problems with racism. They are so indoctrinated they don't even know that racism doesn't exist anymore.

[jacee]

The spoiled brats there have problems with racism. They are so indoctrinated they don't even know that racism doesn't exist anymore.

It's ridiculous to think racism doesn't exist anymore.

[Argus]

The ones who were resigning and being fired. The dean was trying to sweep the racism at his school under the rug.

Really? How was he doing that? As I understand it this racism consisted of a few isolated incidents involving students themselves, mostly drunk, not the university.

I think if you have racial slurs being used on your campus against multiple students you have a race problem on your campus.

What about other slurs? If I call someone a fat ass is that a problem? If I mock their baldness or their weird facial piercings or them wearing glasses or their bad fashion sense or their height, or lack thereof, is that a problem? If while drunk I tell a girl she has nice boobs does the president need to cry on camera about the shock he felt on hearing about my rudeness? If someone puts graffiti on a bathroom wall which mocks gay people does the president need to parade down the center of campus flagellating himself with steel whips?

What makes the university responsible for the occasional doofus saying something rude? And in what world or reality do these students think their wailing and gnashing of teeth and bursting into tears because they heard about such an incident not cause most thinking people to consider them oversensitive, emotionally overwrought idiots?