TimG Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) However, the fact that more parties are involved in crafting legislation makes it more durable.Translation: fixing broken legislation would become impossible because minority interest groups have the power to block any reforms. You seem to be missing the point: I see the fact that Trudeau is able to reverse Harper's legislation as a good thing. It means that we are never any more than one election from fixing mistakes. Durable legislation is a bad thing in my opinion and I don't understand why you are arguing like it is a good thing. Edited March 24, 2016 by TimG Quote
rotary Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 Trudeau and the Liberals campaigned on three consecutive 10 billion dollar deficits then returning us to balanced budget year 4 . What they are promising now is nothing close to that . This was an outright Liberal lie to gain power. They now claim it's a stretch goal to return Canada to a balanced budget . This government has lost what little credibility they had and Canadian tax payers are eagerly waiting to show the liars what they think in 2019 . Maybe you should wait and see what effect the (needed) infrastructure has on the economy. A bump there and a bump in the price of oil and the previous liars will remain in opposition come 2019. Quote
Guest Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Trudeau and the Liberals campaigned on three consecutive 10 billion dollar deficits then returning us to balanced budget year 4 . What they are promising now is nothing close to that . This was an outright Liberal lie to gain power. They now claim it's a stretch goal to return Canada to a balanced budget . This government has lost what little credibility they had and Canadian tax payers are eagerly waiting to show the liars what they think in 2019 . Things change. They also campaigned on removing oil subsidies but didn't stick to that for the same reason as the slowing economy and rising deficits. Edited March 24, 2016 by Guest Quote
Cl Le Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 Canada’s economy arguably fared best among G7 nations during and after the great recession, due partially to Harper’s support for the nation’s huge energy sector. Under Conservative rule, Canada was deemed the second-best country in the world to do business owing in part to the Tories’ low-tax agenda. And in addition to maintaining one of the strongest financial sectors in the world, Harper enhanced Canada’s global economic engagement with a succession of new trade deals. (Some of them — like the Canada-European Union trade agreement and the Trans-Pacific Partnership — are still in pre-implementation phases.) Though Harper has been the object of unusual animus from his own country’s elites and his domestic political opponents for “staining” Canada’s international good name, in 2015 the Reputation Institute reported that Canada is the most admired country in the world. Now Canada has dropped out of the top 5 in happiest countries to live and we have a 30 billion dollar year 1 Liberal deficit to worry about . How is unemployment in Canada these days , up you say ! Go figure , who elects a P/T drama teacher to run a G8 country and actually believes he will have success . This isn't a Disney movie after all and you wouldn't hire a " Ken Doll " to run Hasbro would you ? You might if you vote Liberal ! Quote
Guest Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Did Harper control the world oil price? Despite all of Harper's wheelings and dealings still being in place, how did the price manager to decline so drastically? When the price was higher and the oil sector stronger the Liberals promised to remove oil subsidies. Now, the price is low and the sector weak, so the Liberals backed off on their promise to end subsidies. Should they be chastised for changing with the current reality on that point? Many economists are saying that deficit paranoia is "mind-bogglingly stupid" and that even more stimulus could safely be applied. The Liberals gave a deficit projection and then government revenues worsened. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/analysts-on-tomorrows-budget-deficit-paranoia-is-mind-bogglingly-stupid/article29308661/ I personally don't like deficits and I'm not convinced that stimulus spending is all that productive, but I'm fairly ignorant in this area. However, I understand that projections will have to change along with the economic reality. Also, I don't place a great deal of stock in the rankings but our postion on the various international lists were much higher under the Liberal governments that preceded Harper. If it is your mission to act like a Republican and trash anything non-CPC then I would drop that angle from your rantings. Edited March 24, 2016 by Guest Quote
Cl Le Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 Did Harper control the world oil price? Despite all of Harper's wheelings and dealings still being in place, how did the price manager to decline so drastically? When the price was higher and the oil sector stronger the Liberals promised to remove oil subsidies. Now, the price is low and the sector weak, so the Liberals backed off on their promise to end subsidies. Should they be chastised for changing with the current reality on that point? Many economists are saying that deficit paranoia is "mind-bogglingly stupid" and that even more stimulus could safely be applied. The Liberals gave a deficit projection and then government revenues worsened. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/analysts-on-tomorrows-budget-deficit-paranoia-is-mind-bogglingly-stupid/article29308661/ I personally don't like deficits and I'm not convinced that stimulus spending is all that productive, but I'm fairly ignorant in this area. However, I understand that projections will have to change along with the economic reality. Also, I don't place a great deal of stock in the rankings but our postion on the various international lists were much higher under the Liberal governments that preceded Harper. If it is your mission to act like a Republican and trash anything non-CPC then I would drop that angle from your rantings. Keep the excuses coming , the P/T drama teacher needs as many deflections away from our reality as possible . Just examine the situation Ontario is in . That is exactly where Canada is heading because that is the direction Butts and Trudeau are steering us . How long before the Liberals start raising taxes and opening up other revenue sources for them to get their hands on ? 2019 can't come fast enough for the tax payers of Canada. Quote
square Posted March 24, 2016 Report Posted March 24, 2016 Liberials brought back the Court's Challenge Program. Quote
eyeball Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Dun dun duuunnn! Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
rotary Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Keep the excuses coming , the P/T drama teacher needs as many deflections away from our reality as possible . Just examine the situation Ontario is in . That is exactly where Canada is heading because that is the direction Butts and Trudeau are steering us . How long before the Liberals start raising taxes and opening up other revenue sources for them to get their hands on ? 2019 can't come fast enough for the tax payers of Canada. You may be in for a surprise when the stimulus spending actually kick starts the economy as has happened before, and Canadians happily re-elect the traditional leading party of Canada. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Did Trudeau debate or compromise when he decided to run a 30 billion deficit? Nope he just did it. Did Trudeau consult when he expanded family class and refugee immigration? He just did it. Did Trudeau compromise when he gutted the first nations accountability act? No he just did it.There is no material difference between Trudeau and Harper on this front. The only difference is Trudeau is doing stuff that you agree with so you think he is 'compromising'. The entire 'Harper did not look for consensus and Trudeau does' meme is a myth created by people who don't like Harper.Why would you argue that there shouldn't be consensus then turn around and criticize Trudeau for not getting consensus? You can't keep your position straight. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Translation: fixing broken legislation would become impossible because minority interest groups have the power to block any reforms.You seem to be missing the point: I see the fact that Trudeau is able to reverse Harper's legislation as a good thing. It means that we are never any more than one election from fixing mistakes. Durable legislation is a bad thing in my opinion and I don't understand why you are arguing like it is a good thing.Has anyone ever in the history of the Internet not followed "translation" with an incredibly lazy and weak strawman? Quote
Cruze Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Harper didn't break anything. The youth want legal weed. The youth want legal prostitution. The youth want legal injection sites. The youth want free education. The only way we can afford all these progressive idea's is to go into massive debt. If your gutting the fossil fuel industry and taxing small business to the bone. Where does all the revenue come from to pay for all these progressive Idea's ? I have been waiting for an affordable electric car since the 80s. So now Justin is going to force us to be green,but where is the science to reduce the costs of the middle class energy costs ? Quote
rotary Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Harper didn't break anything. The youth want legal weed. The youth want legal prostitution. The youth want legal injection sites. The youth want free education. The only way we can afford all these progressive idea's is to go into massive debt. If your gutting the fossil fuel industry and taxing small business to the bone. Where does all the revenue come from to pay for all these progressive Idea's ? I have been waiting for an affordable electric car since the 80s. So now Justin is going to force us to be green,but where is the science to reduce the costs of the middle class energy costs ? Legal weed generates a lot of tax revenue, just ask Washington state for example. Jailing people for smoking pot costs huge tax dollars. So does trying to jail people for imbibing in the worlds oldest profession. Legal injection sites save lives and a lot of money from healthcare. Education makes people employable so they can pay tax. The Prius has been affordable for years, although it is of course a hybrid. See what progressive ideas actually do? Quote
Cl Le Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Why would you argue that there shouldn't be consensus then turn around and criticize Trudeau for not getting consensus? You can't keep your position straight. Trudeau and the Liberals pulled off one of the biggest lies in Canadian election history , they will pay the price in 2019 . The good news is I bet there is a camp in Quebec in need of a counselor with good hair . Quote
rotary Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Trudeau and the Liberals pulled off one of the biggest lies in Canadian election history , they will pay the price in 2019 . The good news is I bet there is a camp in Quebec in need of a counselor with good hair . I suggest not letting that wishful thinking get ahead of you. The country was so fed up with Harper, I'm sureTrudeau is good for at least one more term just from that alone. Quote
Cl Le Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 I suggest not letting that wishful thinking get ahead of you. The country was so fed up with Harper, I'm sureTrudeau is good for at least one more term just from that alone. I am confident after observing his complete incompetence over the first few months Canada will slowly see him for what he really is . . . a dullard plain and simple . Quote
rotary Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 I am confident after observing his complete incompetence over the first few months Canada will slowly see him for what he really is . . . a dullard plain and simple . That's what Harper used to harp on about too. Boy did he get a surprise eh. Quote
Big Guy Posted March 29, 2016 Report Posted March 29, 2016 So the Harper foreign policy has also been reversed. Methinks Minister Dion has just announced that Canada will now be engaging Russia and Iran and looking very differently at the Middle East. I hope that means that Canada will shift back to a more neutral position on the Israeli Palestine conflict. We may have to since he also announced our our return to active support of and participation in the UN. This Trudeau government is reversing Harper legislation far faster than Harper rammed it through in Omnibus bills. If this continues there will be nothing to remember the Harper administration for. It usually takes longer for a legacy (or lack of one) to be established but the Harper regime legacy is certainly taking a beating. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 I recall Lawrence Martin's opinion piece written 5 years ago. Five years later, Harper has made Canada more conservative Stephen Harper, some opine, lacks a major meaningful accomplishment in his first five years in power. Not true. If you consider an obvious corollary, that the main purpose of a conservative prime minister is to make the country more conservative, his record is weighty... ...Canada is moving in a conservative direction, but whether it is the direction preferred by the people – people who approve of American Democrats over Republicans by a large margin – is a question that remains to be decided. It’s the question that makes the next election critically important. The issue in this country isn’t the economy, which is recovering nicely. The issue is values: Harper values versus Liberal values. Story After two elections since the above was written I question whose values have been moved and where. As far as foreign policy goes Harper publicly forswore trade with dictatorships like China when he was just starting out and now we have a putatively progressive PM who's said he admires China's dictatorship. Wherever else we've gone the whole planet seems to be moving in the direction of undemocratic power. To me that seems a lot less conservative than right-wing but it is what it is I guess. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Martin Chriton Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 If this continues there will be nothing to remember the Harper administration for. It usually takes longer for a legacy (or lack of one) to be established but the Harper regime legacy is certainly taking a beating. I agree with you that claims about the Harper gov causing permanent damage to Canada were bogus. As you hint at, if all negative aspects were so easy to revert there was not much negative there. In terms of legacy, it appears JT supports some of the more broadly impacting & popular legislation from Harper administration such as the TFSAs. JT has been digging himself a hole that we'll need to unwind asap. Out of step with most other countries on retirement age -- taking us backwards; and other significant issues. I have more respect for Harper now than when he was in power. I wasn't a fan of the starve the beast political strategy, but thanks to Harper, JT's out of control spending is more limited than it otherwise would've been -- is there any doubt that JT wouldn't have spent anymore if he could. Harper will also be remembered, by some as taking the fair/substantive path over optics for many fiscal issues of significance, e.g.: income splitting Quote
eyeball Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 In terms of legacy, it appears JT supports some of the more broadly impacting & popular legislation from Harper administration such as the TFSAs. And don't forget weapons deals with dictators and Bill C-51. They've apparently gone over like rainbows too Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Guest Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 Politicians rarely give up shady power or money that can reasonably be blamed on another government. Quote
Guest Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 The Liberals will close the office of religious freedom. I feel for you socons. That's all you got from Harper in exchange for your silence and now it's gone. Hey, it was a crappy gift anyway. You wanted to be able to force your pro-life and anti-homosexual beliefs on Canada and all you got was a wimpy little office. I know how you feel though, I once got an ugly sweater when I really wanted anything other than an ugly sweater. I then had to return it, which meant I was given an errand for my birthday. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-to-let-religious-freedom-office-expire-on-march-31/article29416476/ Quote
square Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 Liberals reinstated the Supreme Court of Canada's Program Liberals are fixing the damage done by the Conservatives. Quote
Argus Posted March 30, 2016 Report Posted March 30, 2016 Consensus is a dirty word for many attracted to right wing politics. If you're talking about the US, I agree wholeheartedly. Compromise is another word they despise. I will admit that the Harper government displayed some of these traits - which I did not approve of. But I don't think you can fairly ascribe the characteristics of the Harper government to all Canadian conservatives. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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