On Guard for Thee Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 I don't know if they were lying so much as mistaken, and then determined to convince others that their belief was true. I don't believe I have ever, at any point, expressed admiration or approval for the intelligence or abilities of the Bush administration. I simply can't think of any logical reason for them to invade Iraq if they didn't think there were WMDs there. And no, sorry, I'm not buying into any conspiracy theories which involve arms manufacturers.Believe what you want. It had a lot more to do with oil than WMD. The UN had scoured the countryside and determined there was none. I know as I happened to be there. The military industrial complex is a well oiled machine with or without the Iraq war, but of course you'd have to be seriously naive to think they didn't enjoy the contracts that came from it.
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Believe what you want. It had a lot more to do with oil than WMD. The UN had scoured the countryside and determined there was none. I know as I happened to be there. The military industrial complex is a well oiled machine with or without the Iraq war, but of course you'd have to be seriously naive to think they didn't enjoy the contracts that came from it. Loony conspiracy theories. The US had no need to attack countries to steal their oil. And the Bush administration had as much respect for the UN and it's honesty and integrity as I do. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Loony conspiracy theories. The US had no need to attack countries to steal their oil. And the Bush administration had as much respect for the UN and it's honesty and integrity as I do.And that's why he's a criminal according the the ICC.
ReeferMadness Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Loony conspiracy theories. The US had no need to attack countries to steal their oil. And the Bush administration had as much respect for the UN and it's honesty and integrity as I do. The loony conspiracy theory was that Iraq had WMD. Of course even that theory was only for the gullible sheep. The decision makers knew Saddam didn't have anything otherwise they never would have attacked. The people who decided to attack Iraq weren't just war criminals; they were idiots to boot. They honestly thought that the Iraqi people were going to welcome the heroes with open arms. The result is ISIS. Now we're supposed to believe that the same behavior that brought us ISIS is going to get rid of ISIS. Lunacy. Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
BC_chick Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 A leader leads. You seem to want a follower. A follower constantly seeks the polls to find out where the bandwagon is headed, then runs to jump aboard. You clearly have no clue how a democracy works. You're describing a dictator. Your 'leader' is gone btw after one majority. That's what happens when you go against the wishes of your constituents. It's called democracy. It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
ReeferMadness Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 You hate Harper, we get it. I hate that pathetic PM designate we have because I believe the people who think he will drive change to Ottawa are delusional. I don't hate anyone. However I do deplore that people trying to make some sort of hero or some sad misunderstood victim out of Harper. He's a sad, despotic micro-manager who treated almost every democratic institution everything outside of his party as the enemy and became many of the things he spoke out against before he was in government. But good on you for self-identifying as a hater. That's the first step. Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Global crisis, chretiens mess in afghanistan , the list goes on. And comparing harper to those two is disgusting. It seems to me ,you do not know history at all. Grow up.You compare those events to the birth of a nation, to a world war that could easily have ended in Canada's disappearance? There is a modern tendency to think we are living in the scariest times EVER, every day. The markets have their problems, oil goes up and down in price and the world goes on.Who are considered the greatest US Presidents? I would say Washington and Lincoln would feature in most lists, and probably Roosevelt too. What makes them great is the ordeals they suffered, the extraordinary wars they led their nation through. Edited October 25, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 2008???? The financial crisis looked bad at the time but the world economy did not collapse. It's typical of Harper that he showed no gratitude to Chrétien and Martin for the state they left the country and banks in that enabled us to weather the storm so well. ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 I predict the next leader will not contest five elections. Utter megalomania. ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
angrypenguin Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 The financial crisis looked bad at the time but the world economy did not collapse. It's typical of Harper that he showed no gratitude to Chrétien and Martin for the state they left the country and banks in that enabled us to weather the storm so well. No, their respective finance ministers kept the banks more regulated than the US. I don't give Chretien or Martin that credit. My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Smallc Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 No, their respective finance ministers kept the banks more regulated than the US. I don't give Chretien or Martin that credit. Ah, so you give credit to Chretien's finance minister, but not Martin. That makes sense....
Bryan Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 History is far too kind to PET. interest rate at 21% for a start. The NEP... The fact that anyone likes PET is insane. Justin's dad was a swine. And 13% unemployment, and double digit inflation, and the largest accumulation of debt vs GDP in Canadian history. People have found ways to glorify Hitler and Stalin so it's understandable that people can find ways to portray Harper as a great leader. Harper was one of the best leaders we've ever had, it's pretty easy to find ways to portray him as great. All you have to do is be honest.
On Guard for Thee Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 And 13% unemployment, and double digit inflation, and the largest accumulation of debt vs GDP in Canadian history. Harper was one of the best leaders we've ever had, it's pretty easy to find ways to portray him as great. All you have to do is be honest. Harper was one of the worst leaders we've ever had. Look at our place in the world and how bad he got beat.
marcus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 There is speculation that Baird may make a comeback. Of course, after the dust settles. Imagine, the Conservative Party being led by a gay man! Although, it would most likely be a closet gay man. I doubt he will ever admit that he is gay. It would too much to handle for some of the die-hards. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
ReeferMadness Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Harper was one of the best leaders we've ever had, it's pretty easy to find ways to portray him as great. All you have to do is be honest. in denial to the point of being delusional. Yeah, fair enough. Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 I simply can't think of any logical reason for them to invade Iraq if they didn't think there were WMDs there. And no, sorry, I'm not buying into any conspiracy theories which involve arms manufacturers. Really. And what is your explanation for the claims that WMD existed when they didn't? Do you think whoops is an acceptable excuse for a whole range of war crimes? Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
angrypenguin Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Harper was one of the worst leaders we've ever had. Look at our place in the world and how bad he got beat. Typical ignorance. My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 And that's why he's a criminal according the the ICC. Cite request. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 The loony conspiracy theory was that Iraq had WMD. Of course even that theory was only for the gullible sheep. The decision makers knew Saddam didn't have anything otherwise they never would have attacked. Drivel. What was the motive for Bush and Cheney, both already immensley wealthy and powerful men? The people who decided to attack Iraq weren't just war criminals; they were idiots to boot. They honestly thought that the Iraqi people were going to welcome the heroes with open arms. T They did, but the Americans won the war only to fumble the peace, unprepared and unequipped for it. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 You clearly have no clue how a democracy works. You're describing a dictator. Your 'leader' is gone btw after one majority. That's what happens when you go against the wishes of your constituents. It's called democracy. Geeze, once again you are confusing what a leader is. A leader persuades, a leader makes deals and arrangements and speeches and convinces people to come around to his way of thinking. You call that a dictator? Seriously?! A leader does not look at public opinion polls and simply go that way. That's not leadership. It's politics. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Harper was one of the worst leaders we've ever had. Look at our place in the world and how bad he got beat. The most respected country in the world. One of the richest, most stable, most successful countries in the world. One of the few western countries which has managed to balance its budget amid social peace and economic prosperity. What exactly is so horrible about all that? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Really. And what is your explanation for the claims that WMD existed when they didn't? Do you think whoops is an acceptable excuse for a whole range of war crimes? I think government ineptness explains far more about almost everything than conspiracy theories. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Greatness is rare - otherwise, the honour is devalued. Off the top of my head, I can recall only one English king who was called great in well over a thousand years. So, by that yardstick, I think you'd have to limit the great PM title to no more than five which is probably too generous. Who are your five great PMs and why? ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 The most respected country in the world. One of the richest, most stable, most successful countries in the world. One of the few western countries which has managed to balance its budget amid social peace and economic prosperity. What exactly is so horrible about all that? Politicians take way too much credit for such successes. Canada is well run mainly because of ordinary Canadians. ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 I think government ineptness explains far more about almost everything than conspiracy theories. The Iraq war was an entirely avoidable disaster. Questionable intelligence was used in a wilfully dishonest way. One of Chretien's 'greatest' achievements was keeping us out of that mess when Harper and his friends at the National Post were baying for involvement. He never apologized for that error which would have brought misery to many Canadian families. ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
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