Trade war full blown threaten

[Stoker]

Nike ius not a Canadian export product; China is buying coal in large quantities and BC may be able to re open some coal mining towns.

I guess my point flew over your head.

Raw resources IS a start; that's all the Americans want to import.

Perhaps from British Columbia.........ask those that work in our Automoblie industry back east though.

I believe that technology is another thing we can sell to China.

They don't buy technology, they steal it, then make themselves.

Why would you bring up a ridiculous idea of Nike which are probably made in China and owned by Americans.

Again, the point went over your head........China will not purchase Canadian manufactured goods at anything close to the same rate as that of the United States. In (not) doing so, a large sector of Canadians will be out of work.

[caesar]

Perhaps from British Columbia.........ask those that work in our Automoblie industry back east though.

Well we are part of Canada, too and we are tired of getting nothing but bs from the US in trade issues. They heavily subsidize their agriculture industry; so we get to throw ours away. Large unfair tarrifs on our lumber industry that they now want to grab prior to settlement; which is now tilted in Canada's favour and use it to double subsidize their industry. While we don't have a large beef industry; most of it is raising the young cattle and selling live. They steal our fish, particularly Alaska. America does not abide by our trade agreements.

We supplied California with hydro power during their crisis; last I heard, they still owe us billions of dollars.

[Chloe]

So what do you suggest we stop trade with the US and start trade with another Country?

And which one?

[Stoker]

They heavily subsidize their agriculture industry; so we get to throw ours away. Large unfair tarrifs on our lumber industry that they now want to grab prior to settlement; which is now tilted in Canada's favour and use it to double subsidize their industry.

And we put large tariffs on their poultry and dairy products, so in affect.........softwood lumber and poultry and dairy cancel out. (Tic for Tac that is, I'm not sure economically)

While we don't have a large beef industry; most of it is raising the young cattle and selling live.

So us not having a large beef industry is America's fault?

They steal our fish, particularly Alaska.

In international waters......can a nation put ownship on a Chinook out in the Pacific?

America does not abide by our trade agreements.

We can pull out of NAFATA anytime we wish.......

We supplied California with hydro power during their crisis; last I heard, they still owe us billions of dollars.

Take them to court.

What it comes down to is that America (For the most part) is all we have to deal with. We may be able to increase trade with some emerging second world markets (South America and Southeast Asia) but in all realitiy we will be the purchaser of (cheap) goods, not the exporter.

Now I ask, since America will likely be our largest trading partner (by far) for a long, long time, would it not be prudent to try and foster better relations with them?

In all reality, how has America done us wrong? Closed the boaders to sick cows......Wouldn't we do the same, if say a case of mad cow was found in New Zealand beef?

Put tarrifs on our wood, when we try and flood their market with it? We are doing the same thing to American farmers......

So what has America done to hurt Canadians?

[Stoker]

Something to think about

[Stoker]

Those evil Americans.......

[August1991]

From Link above:

Another attack with roots north of the border would prompt the US to seal the borders and that indeed would hit both economies hard, for Canada however it would be devastating whereas for the US it would merely be uncomfortable.

This ignores the fact that sealing the border would be devastating to some Americans too.

Canadians would be better to see themselves as a minority in North America.

I have posted this image before. Not only does it show what Canada really is but it also shows what society is. Many points with relationships with other points.

Such is the true nature of Canada-US trade. Individual Canadians trade with individual Americans.

[caesar]

I have posted this image before. Not only does it show what Canada really is but it also shows what society is. Many points with relationships with other points.

Just shows that the Americans are still wasting electricity and NEED our power sources here in Canada. Shut it all down wherever possible. Just allow them the basics needed for survival.

[Newfie Canadian]

It's getting interesting.

The WTO has imposed sanctions on some US goods.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/11/26/wto.s...s.ap/index.html

[caesar]

It's getting interesting.

The WTO has imposed sanctions on some US goods.

Yes, and since this is not just an action sought by Canada; it just might have some good effect. Hopefully, they will stop that action to steal Canadian companies over 3 billion dollars being held as tariffs (unfounded by NAFTA)

[Newfie Canadian]

Yes, and since this is not just an action sought by Canada; it just might have some good effect.

I think it would take a coordinated effort by Canada, the EU and Japan to make some progress.

Canada alone won't change much.

[Argus]

Something to think about

The thing is that, paranoid or not, justified or not, the US is in the midst of a security frenzy. Something like 85% of all our exports go across the border to the US. They consume 45% of ALL manufactured goods we create.

If Canada is not willing to secure it's own borders, and to this date we have shown absolutely no interest or care in who comes into this nation, the US may well decide to secure their own border with us in such a way it will become extremely expensive and time-consuming to cross. We have already seen reports of tourism being hit by day travellers no longer crossing from the US due to the difficulties of getting back across the border afterwards.

[Argus]

Another attack with roots north of the border would prompt the US to seal the borders and that indeed would hit both economies hard, for Canada however it would be devastating whereas for the US it would merely be uncomfortable.

This ignores the fact that sealing the border would be devastating to some Americans too.

I wonder, though, if becoming more protectionist might actually be worth it for them. Think about it. They have a $450 billion annual trade deficit.

Suppose they said "From this day forth we will buy nothing from foreigners but raw materials and food. End of discussion."

This would certainly cause enormous hardship among certain industries, sectors and companies in the United States - at first, but in the long term, would they not be far better off? They have a huge home-grown market - unlike us. They don't actually need to sell their manufactured goods anywhere else if they face no competition within their own borders. Those whose jobs once depended on exports to Europe or Canada or wherever would find new jobs in the revitalized industries selling now to a captive market. There would still be a deficit, in oil alone, but their internal economy would be up by several hundred billion dollars per year.

We, of course, would be destroyed, as would any number of other countries.

[August1991]

In 1971, Nixon imposed a 10% surtax on all imports to the US. Immediately, Trudeau sent a delegation to Washington to get an exemption for Canada. The Americans granted it.

Canada is one of the few countries in the world that can talk trade with the US government.

This would certainly cause enormous hardship among certain industries, sectors and companies in the United States - at first, but in the long term, would they not be far better off?

No, they would be worse off.

Those whose jobs once depended on exports to Europe or Canada or wherever would find new jobs in the revitalized industries selling now to a captive market.

I agree that the US is largely autonomous but if the US tried to stop foreign trade, it would be poorer.

I wonder, though, if becoming more protectionist might actually be worth it for them. Think about it. They have a $450 billion annual trade deficit.

Don't forget that a trade deficit on the current account means there is a surplus on the capital account. The world has been accumulating American financial securities at an astounding rate over the past 20 years or so because America has been a great place to invest. The Japanese are not alone in this.

If Canada is not willing to secure it's own borders, and to this date we have shown absolutely no interest or care in who comes into this nation, the US may well decide to secure their own border with us in such a way it will become extremely expensive and time-consuming to cross.

Good point, Argus. I agree. If PM PM has genuine political courage, he would negotiate some kind of deal with the States concerning a combined US/Canada visa regime for foreigners entering North America.

[Guest eureka]

How much of that 85% of Canadian exports to the US is of products from businesses owned by the US or in which it has considerable financial interest. How much money that is not reflected in trade figures is earned by the US on those.

The Auto industry in Ontario accounts for billions and the oil ineterests for a considerable amount. I suspect that the money exchange put a significantly different light on the economic relationship.

[caesar]

Maybe Trudeau could; not these wimpy leaders we have today. Besides Mulroney screwed everything up with the Free trade arrangements that allows the USA pretty much free access to our resources. Besides, previous American Presidents were not so anti Canadian as is our dear friend Mr Bush.

[caesar]

Suppose they said "From this day forth we will buy nothing from foreigners but raw materials and food. End of discussion."

Then we say: "We will sell nothing but finished goods"

They need our resources as much as we need their money. American consumers would suffer with much higher prices; they would be the ones screaming. We would adjust as has the beef industry and do more processing in Canada; plus we would search for more varied customers; China and India are fast growing markets.

Canada and Mexico have made progress in working together to deal with the trade problems with the USA. It is not only Canada that is having these issues with the USA on trade issues. Time that the USA starts obeying WTO and all other international agreements.

[Cartman]

Canada and Mexico have made progress in working together to deal with the trade problems with the USA. It is not only Canada that is having these issues with the USA on trade issues. Time that the USA starts obeying WTO and all other international agreements.

The US has tried to ignore the rest of the world economically and politically and that is why they have a low $$ and why Bush has to worship political allies like Poland.

[Argus]

Suppose they said "From this day forth we will buy nothing from foreigners but raw materials and food. End of discussion."

Then we say: "We will sell nothing but finished goods"

Hmm, nice idea. Wouldn't work. Our economy would be in such deep depression, with the government nearing bankruptcy, that we would not be able to refuse to sell them anything. We'd need the money too badly. Besides, they can get most of what they get from us elsewhere.

They need our resources as much as we need their money. 

I doubt that very much.

American consumers would suffer with much higher prices;  they would be the ones screaming. 

The softwood lumber tax has driven up the price of new homes by a couple of thousand dollars. Do you see the American consumer complaining - or even noticing? Besides, we've already seen the US citizenry is willing to accept a lot in the name of patriotism.

We would adjust as has the beef industry and do more processing in Canada; plus we would search for more varied customers;

Yes, good luck with that, replacing someone who buys 45% of all your manufactured goods isn't done very easily.

[Argus]

This would certainly cause enormous hardship among certain industries, sectors and companies in the United States - at first, but in the long term, would they not be far better off?

No, they would be worse off.

Why?

Those whose jobs once depended on exports to Europe or Canada or wherever would find new jobs in the revitalized industries selling now to a captive market.

I agree that the US is largely autonomous but if the US tried to stop foreign trade, it would be poorer.

Why?

I wonder, though, if becoming more protectionist might actually be worth it for them. Think about it. They have a $450 billion annual trade deficit.

Don't forget that a trade deficit on the current account means there is a surplus on the capital account.

Not neccessarily. We're talking about a merchandise trade deficit which represents goods shipped into the US from other countries far exceeding what is shipped out of the US. I'm not at all sure why a high deficit would impact investment in the US, especially at a time of a falling US dollar crushing returns to foreign investors.

[caesar]

The softwood lumber tax has driven up the price of new homes by a couple of thousand dollars. Do you see the American consumer complaining - or even noticing? Besides, we've already seen the US citizenry is willing to accept a lot in the name of patriotism.

Yes they are and many companies that rely on our lumber are two as are many meat packing plants.

Patriotism????? propagandized bs

There are many other growing markets. BC is cleaning up selling coal to China. Prices are doubling; we may reopen some ghost towns.

India is another growing market.

We just have to be able to adjust and sell the products they need.

[Newfie Canadian]

While it's not indicative of a trade war, China is looking to buy oil.

NYTimes Article

[Big Blue Machine]

At least China is buying oil, and not getting it for at a very low price. Why can't China buy some of our oil. As long as there is enough for us, then whats the problem?

[caesar]

Yes, I was reading the New York paper. Seems the Americans are getting worried that Canada could find a very willing market for our oil in China. Canada is the major supplier of oil to the USA. Perhaps that is why Bush has been making a show of being more civil to Canada these days.

[ceemes]

Yes, I was reading the New York paper. Seems the Americans are getting worried that Canada could find a very willing market for our oil in China. Canada is the major supplier of oil to the USA. Perhaps that is why Bush has been making a show of being more civil to Canada these days.

That's not all that is heading to China from Canada....BC lumber is in great demand there. There was a piece on Global yesterday (12/23/04) about BC firm's building so-called "Streets of Dreams" there. Seem's that private home ownership is waaay up in Communist China and one of the ultimate status symbols for the emerging middle class is to one a detached western style home.

BC lumber, construction firms, designers and HVAC firms are starting to rake it in.