Trade war full blown threaten

[caesar]

De Jong says if Baucus's bill passes Canada will have no choice but to retaliate. "You can't steal $4 billion from a country and not expect that there would be repercussions."

He says he and his federal counterpart are now talking about what kind of retaliation Canada might take if the bill passes. And he says one of the options includes stopping energy exports to the U.S

This could be interesting. I would expect we will hear Albertans screaming their heads off to separate.

[maplesyrup]

I find this hilarious. BC Campbell Liberals threatening a trade war with their business buddies in the US.

And people complained about Parrish!

I read today that only 67% of Canadians think the US is our best ally. I wonder when that is going to go below 50%.

[caesar]

Not really Campbell's Liberals; this would be federal. They are discussing it with them now. The Americans are sneaky. They are trying to keep our Canadian money.

[maplesyrup]

De Jong is a cabinet minister in BC Campbell's government.

Diplomacy sure is different these days - normally someone in de Jong's position would go through a federal cabinet minister.

Anyway it is all posturing for de jong's re-election in the next BC provincial election.

[stamps]

I read today that only 67% of Canadians think the US is our best ally. I wonder when that is going to go below 50%.

Probably when we reach that point in time when our country has a Muslim majority.....

[Newfie Canadian]

Here's a quote from Baucus' official website:

It's essential that we secure a common sense, top-notch deal with the Canadian government that truly reflects an open and competitive market in softwood lumber. I'll keep working to see that we succeed.

Can anyone tell me how his new bill does this?

[maplesyrup]

Trade Issues Sour U.S.-Canadian Friendships

The trade disputes get scant attention in the United States and are small in the context of the largest free trading relationship between any two countries in the world. But they are corroding Canadian feelings toward the United States, which has complicated efforts by Prime Minister Paul Martin to promote security and military policies that are closer to American positions.

"This has brought anti-Americanism in this country to levels I've never seen in my life, and I find it very disturbing," said Lyle Stewart, a conservative member of the Saskatchewan provincial legislature

"Economic terrorism, that's what we call it," said Barry Howardson, a 40-year-old electrician who lost his job when Interfor, a lumber company, closed its sawmill in Squamish, British Columbia, last year as a result of a 27 percent American tariff levied on many wood products in 2002. He now works with other former full-time employees disassembling the Squamish mill.

This really is going to get ugly, if it hasn't already, if it continues. What is the point of these trade agreements if the dispute resolution mechanisms are not functioning, or are only going to function for the benefit of the bully?

[Stoker]

I read today that only 67% of Canadians think the US is our best ally. I wonder when that is going to go below 50%.

I wonder if those 33% understand that over 80% of our exports go to the US........ever hear the saying "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face?"

This really is going to get ugly, if it hasn't already, if it continues. What is the point of these trade agreements if the dispute resolution mechanisms are not functioning, or are only going to function for the benefit of the bully?

Do you understand that might makes right?

What do you think us cutting off power will achieve? Will a hypothaical tariff on the Canadian automotive industry help maters? What about the United States no longer defending us?

[maplesyrup]

Defending us from what - the polar bears?

I think if you asked Canadians where our biggest threat comes from they would say the US.

Seriously though, who is going to attack us? We have heard about what a dilapadated military we have, and these threats of a bogeyman that is going to come and take us over, for close to 60 years. Fortunately no one wants us. If someone invades us, trust me Canadians will be there. That is all we need apart from our peacekeeping missions..

[Guest eureka]

Might does not make Right if you mean that Right is on the side of Might.

The adage means that Might will ensure Right for those who do not possess might. It was coined by a Libertarian (Carlyle) who thought societies would work that way - something like Hugo.

[caesar]

What do you think us cutting off power will achieve? Will a hypothaical tariff on the Canadian automotive industry help maters? What about the United States no longer defending us

I doubt that 67% figure that beleives the USA is our best ally. That must have been taken over 4 years ago.

No, might does NOT make right; it makes a bully.

If the USA does this underhanded illegal deal with Canadian logging companies monies; it pretty well cancels NAFTA.

They need our energy much more that we need to sell sutomotive whatever down there. We buy more American cars than anythging we sell them. Start making our cars ourselves.

The only country we need defending from is the USA.

Being allies with them would endanger us; not make us safer in any way.

[Stoker]

Defending us from what - the polar bears?

.........I was thinking more along the lines of the Quebec Ice storms and the Manitoba floods (amongest pretty much anything else that threatens us).

I think if you asked Canadians where our biggest threat comes from they would say the US.

Yes, and those that beleived that most likely are in the 33%..........

Seriously though, who is going to attack us? We have heard about what a dilapadated military we have, and these threats of a bogeyman that is going to come and take us over, for close to 60 years. Fortunately no one wants us. If someone invades us, trust me Canadians will be there. That is all we need apart from our peacekeeping missions..

As I mentioned above.....we can't defend ourselves from mother nature, let alone a determined attack........or even an advance into out terrority.......case in point, the recent landing of a Danish military team onto one of our Artic Islands that is beleived to be resource rich.

The Danish are hardly superpowers........

What about Spain and the turbot crisis? They came close to sending the "Armada" off the east coast over fishing rights.......

Tell me Maple, if the Spain did indeed send their fleet, and let's say their tensions where hightend over what they really where, and let's pretend that they declared a maritime exclusions zone around the grand banks........how are Canadians "going to be there"?

And keep in mind, both these countries are not Superpowers.

Might does not make Right if you mean that Right is on the side of Might.

The adage means that Might will ensure Right for those who do not possess might. It was coined by a Libertarian (Carlyle) who thought societies would work that way - something like Hugo.

Ahhhh.....romanticism..isn't that cute

You and Carlyle are very much mistaken.......who's going to stop the United States?

Nobody, except the United States......and that won't happen as long as they keep doing whats best for themselves.

[caesar]

As I mentioned above.....we can't defend ourselves from mother nature, let alone a determined attack........or even an advance into out terrority.......case in point, the recent landing of a Danish military team onto one of our Artic Islands that is beleived to be resource rich.

No country can protect itself from mother nature. so what? neither can the Americans (check out Florida)

Is the USA going to protect us from mother nature; harm mother nature is more their style.

We have more to fear from the USA attempting to steal our northern territory; we are up there touching base now and reasserting our claim. The USA is trying to slide the border of /Alaska to claim Canadian resource rich territory. The Danes left without a big problem, did they not???

The USA is the threat in this much more so than any other.

[Stoker]

No country can protect itself from mother nature. so what? neither can the Americans (check out Florida)

Is the USA going to protect us from mother nature; harm mother nature is more their style.

Perhaps I didn't make my self clear enough for you caesar......IOW, we need to the United States to protect us from the after affects of mother nature......case in point Quebec Ice storms and Manitoba floods.....and the eventual "big one" we will get out here........

I wonder how many dope smoking anti-american hippies in Vancouver would be screaming if we had the "big one" and in turn had no power, heat, food or drinking water for a mater of months because Canada couldn't fly the nessacary supplies into abbordsford airport........

I wonder how many people in Quebec (Ice storms), Manitoba (floods) and Halifax (Hurricane) would have faced greater hardships if it was not for the Americans.

And good forbid, we suffer from a major terrorists attack (be it WMD or conventional), who is going to be there to help us at a drop of a hat?

We have more to fear from the USA attempting to steal our northern territory; we are up there touching base now and reasserting our claim. The USA is trying to slide the border of /Alaska to claim Canadian resource rich territory. The Danes left without a big problem, did they not???

We have boarder disputes with both the Americans and Danes.......only the Danes have landed in our territory with military personal.

The USA is the threat in this much more so than any other.

And if you feel that way, why do you wish to antagonize them further by starting a trade war?

You do understand we put unfair tariffs (As deemed by the United States) on American dairy and poultry products?

You also understand that the WTO has decided with the Americans on lumber?

WTO backs U.S. duties on Canada lumber

Did you ever think that we maybe in the wrong?

[caesar]

WTO backs U.S. duties on Canada lumber

Did you ever think that we maybe in the wrong?

Obviously, you just skimmed the article for that which supports your case; go back and read it again particularly the Byrd amendment. WTO is only advisory and did not give a full win to the USA. Under NAFTA which DOES have teeth; the USA lost and were told that Canadian imports do NOT harm the American lumber industry; they are going for an extra ordinary exemption. they have never won one yet.

No Canada is NOT wrong in this situation.

[Stoker]

Obviously, you just skimmed the article for that which supports your case; go back and read it again particularly the Byrd amendment. WTO is only advisory and did not give a full win to the USA. Under NAFTA which DOES have teeth; the USA lost and were told that Canadian imports do NOT harm the American lumber industry; they are going for an extra ordinary exemption. they have never won one yet.

No Canada is NOT wrong in this situation.

No, I read the entire piece, added to the fact that I choose to keep abreast of the issue.......living in a foresty dependent community and all.

Again:

The World Trade Organization (WTO) largely upheld a ruling that supported steep antidumping tariffs imposed by the U.S. on imports of Canadian softwood lumber.

And if the first line isn't enough to tell you who "won"........tell, is Canadian lumber flowing through the boarder tariff free?

The Tariffs may be lessend, but they won't go away untill we stop trying to low-ball the prioce of our lumber.

[caesar]

Perhaps I didn't make my self clear enough for you caesar......IOW, we need to the United States to protect us from the after affects of mother nature......case in point Quebec Ice storms and Manitoba floods.....and the eventual "big one" we will get out here........

I think we can look after ourselves as well as the next country. However, since we Canadians HAVE been there for them; why should that change. Those types of unusual tradgedies usually bring international support; friend and foes. Not high on my list of bending over backwards to a dictator (Bush)

[caesar]

The Tariffs may be lessend, but they won't go away untill we stop trying to low-ball the prioce of our lumber.

NAFTA has the teeth. Besides it is against the WTO to give that money to their companies. readhe WHOLE article

[Stoker]

NAFTA has the teeth. Besides it is against the WTO to give that money to their companies. readhe WHOLE article

It does not mater.........all that has to happan is that the United States has to adjust the tariffs.........that does not mean that the tariffs won't still be there (abit at a lower rate).

And it brings us back to the fact that might makes right........The United States could tell the WTO to poke it and pull out of NAFTA.

That will hurt us alot more then it will hurt them.

[Guest eureka]

How will it hurt us if the US pulls out of Nafta? Pre-Nafta, we were doing much better. Trade has stagnated since the agreements and there wer relatively few tariffs to remove when the deal was put into force.

All that we really got was a loss of control of our economy and a loss of jobs.

To be fair, NAFTA also cost the US jobs too. Mexico initially gained but is now losing its gains to "outsourcing."

[caesar]

And it brings us back to the fact that might makes right........The United States could tell the WTO to poke it and pull out of NAFTA.

That will hurt us alot more then it will hurt them.

I will repeat might does NOT make right. That is the idea of a bully. Forget world trade; the USA is violating NAFTA, yet again, Canada should pull out of NAFTA; the USA will not; it gives them too many rights to our resources that they covet. Mulroney made it much too easy for them.

Diversify our trade partners. The USA is going down in a mountain of bills and loss of good will world wide. We don't need to hitch our wagon to a dying horse.

[Stoker]

Diversify our trade partners.

With who?

[caesar]

Well Stoker, in case you haven't noticed; there is a big world out there. China is the biggest new consumer now. They will soon replace Canada as the NO 1 trading partner of the USA unless we get busy and start opening up trade with them. That is where we need to start; and quickly.

[Stoker]

Well Stoker, in case you haven't noticed; there is a big world out there. China is the biggest new consumer now. They will soon replace Canada as the NO 1 trading partner of the USA unless we get busy and start opening up trade with them. That is where we need to start; and quickly.

We are a trade exporter.........do you really think Chinese people are going to start buying Nike running shoes that where made in Canada?

And do you know why China will replace us? Because Chinese goods will be/are cheaper then Canadian goods........So again, how is it that you beleive that China will purchase Canadian goods? Raw resources perhaps, but not goods.......I think General Motors's biggest plant is in China.....

[caesar]

We are a trade exporter.........do you really think Chinese people are going to start buying Nike running shoes that where made in Canada? 

Nike ius not a Canadian export product; China is buying coal in large quantities and BC may be able to re open some coal mining towns.

Raw resources IS a start; that's all the Americans want to import.

I believe that technology is another thing we can sell to China.

Why would you bring up a ridiculous idea of Nike which are probably made in China and owned by Americans.