eyeball Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) SV certainly might have overshot it's goal alright. It might have worked in my riding as we're now represented by the NDP, however our's is also a newly redrawn riding and that might have resulted in the same outcome. I've been represented by ex-Conservative James Lunney the last couple elections. Most people I've talked with today were hoping for a Liberal minority and FPTP/PR was a common theme. It seems fairly certain that most strategic voters at heart are also determined to vote in a Parliament that's likeliest to bring about prop rep as possible. Proponents of prop rep and strategic voting should put their heads together to better combine and co-ordinate their organization of information and voter intention to achieve a more focused result next time there is an election. Edited October 21, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
angrypenguin Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 All those NDPers I talked to at work today who strategically voted feel awful. Like i've been saying to all in real life and on here, vote for the party that aligns to you and let the rest take care of itself. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
ReeferMadness Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 SV certainly might have overshot it's goal alright. It might have worked in my riding as we're now represented by the NDP, however our's is also a newly redrawn riding and that might have resulted in the same outcome. I've been represented by ex-Conservative James Lunney the last couple elections. Most people I've talked with today were hoping for a Liberal minority and FPTP/PR was a common theme. It seems fairly certain that most strategic voters at heart are also determined to vote in a Parliament that's likeliest to bring about prop rep as possible. Proponents of prop rep and strategic voting should put their heads together to better combine and co-ordinate their organization of information and voter intention to achieve a more focused result next time there is an election. There were a couple of different organizations promoting SV. In addition, there were different websites that showed differing poll numbers for the same ridings. Some ridings (Edmonton Centre is a good example) prompted arguments over which candidate was best positioned to challenge the incumbent. And then there were the parties. The Green Party was dead against SV (because it lost votes in almost all cases) and the NDP was mostly against it. So, for strategic voting to be really effective, you need a single organization and good polling. LeadNow did (I thought) quite a principled and thorough job but even they were criticized. They got people to commit to SV, crowd-sourced money to poll ridings and allowed people to vote on which candidate would be endorsed as the preferred strategic candidate. However, information wasn't perfect and in some cases they took some criticism over that. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 All those NDPers I talked to at work today who strategically voted feel awful. Like i've been saying to all in real life and on here, vote for the party that aligns to you and let the rest take care of itself. I wonder how they'd feel if they didn't vote strategically and Harper was back in. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
dre Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 SV certainly might have overshot it's goal alright. It might have worked in my riding as we're now represented by the NDP, however our's is also a newly redrawn riding and that might have resulted in the same outcome. I've been represented by ex-Conservative James Lunney the last couple elections. Most people I've talked with today were hoping for a Liberal minority and FPTP/PR was a common theme. It seems fairly certain that most strategic voters at heart are also determined to vote in a Parliament that's likeliest to bring about prop rep as possible. Proponents of prop rep and strategic voting should put their heads together to better combine and co-ordinate their organization of information and voter intention to achieve a more focused result next time there is an election. Yeah im not happy about the majority. I was hoping the NDP would be able to force the Liberals to role back some of the more putrid CPC legislation, get Canadian forces out of Iraq and Syria, and back out of, or renogiate the TPP. Still... its better than another lost decade under the CPC. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Smallc Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 All those NDPers I talked to at work today who strategically voted feel awful. I call bull on that. The people I know that VOTED NDP are happy with the outcome. Robin Sears was happy with the outcome. Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I wonder how they'd feel if they didn't vote strategically and Harper was back in. Uhh, the Liberals would have gotten a minority nonetheless. Only 10% of people allegedly voted strategically. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Hydraboss Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I'm just glad it's a majority. I would have preferred a CPC majority, but either way, at least no one has to suck up to the NDP to stay in power. Besides, with the exception of Juthtin (not a misspelling), there isn't a lot of difference in governing between the LPC and the CPC. And my investments will be now be stable. That's all that truly matters. Thanks for the strategic voting Mr and Mrs NDP! Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
Smallc Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Besides, with the exception of Juthtin (not a misspelling), How can you know he's the exception when he hasn't even formed government yet? Quote
msj Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 All those NDPers I talked to at work today who strategically voted feel awful. Like i've been saying to all in real life and on here, vote for the party that aligns to you and let the rest take care of itself. I'm happy I held my nose and strategically voted. I may do this from now on, Federally. It's nice voting for the winning candidate if only to deny the CPC's a seat. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Hydraboss Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 How can you know he's the exception when he hasn't even formed government yet? True, he could end up exactly like Harper, but I doubt he's nearly smart enough. The Hair will likely wander aimlessly through his mandate, blissfully unaware that other people are actually running the country. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
eyeball Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah im not happy about the majority. I was hoping the NDP would be able to force the Liberals to role back some of the more putrid CPC legislation, get Canadian forces out of Iraq and Syria, and back out of, or renogiate the TPP. Still... its better than another lost decade under the CPC. That's the most prevalent feeling I've encountered all day. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ReeferMadness Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Uhh, the Liberals would have gotten a minority nonetheless. Only 10% of people allegedly voted strategically. citation? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 True, he could end up exactly like Harper, but I doubt he's nearly smart enough. I thought that too. Watching him in the last couple of weeks I've changed my mind. Quote
kimmy Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 If me and a few hundred others had gone with instinct instead of with advice The Waldo's crappy Strategic Voting website, this young woman would be on her way to Ottawa. However, since the Liberals already had a hefty majority, it's probably for the best that we sent a Tory instead. You're off the hook this time, Waldo. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
ToadBrother Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 I thought that too. Watching him in the last couple of weeks I've changed my mind. I agree. Trudeau is not a stupid man, and really, he has as much Parliamentary experience now as Harper did when he took the reigns of the Alliance. Everything I've seen from this horribly long election tells me that Trudeau has more energy and more drive than Harper had in years. He will also have a pretty good Cabinet, so I can't see why he will need to be the one-man band that Harper was. Quote
Guest Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 If me and a few hundred others had gone with instinct instead of with advice The Waldo's crappy Strategic Voting website, this young woman would be on her way to Ottawa. However, since the Liberals already had a hefty majority, it's probably for the best that we sent a Tory instead. You're off the hook this time, Waldo. -k JT's incredible, late surge at the expense of Angry Tom certainly made strategic voting difficult in several ridings. Quote
Canada_First Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 eh, he did well. I won't criticize him until he actually does something. SO far he has done nothing. I would hope that even his most rabid fans wouldn't accept everything he says and does as gospel. The guy cannot be perfect. I will reserve judgement until he does something I don't like. So far he's perfect. Quote
Smallc Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 eh, he did well. I won't criticize him until he actually does something. SO far he has done nothing. I would hope that even his most rabid fans wouldn't accept everything he says and does as gospel. Well, lets start with promises made and kept. I think we should let him form government before we start judging them. Quote
Canada_First Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 Well, lets start with promises made and kept. I think we should let him form government before we start judging them. I totally agree with you. Let's give him a chance to see what he will do. I don't hate Trudeau I just don't see how being a substitute drama teacher for one year then going on a speaking tour makes one ready to be PM. If he wasn't PET's son would he even be leading the Liberal party? Would a drama teacher be leading the Liberal Party if his name was anything other than Trudeau? Quote
Smeelious Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 I'd say dealing with drama students would be a perfect preparation for dealing with politicians. Otherwise I don't see any valid reason that a teacher can't be a viable politician. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Trudeau was also a math teacher and an engineering student, then a politician. What employment prepared Harper for public life? His brief time in the mail room or working with computers at Imperial Oil? He was just another life long politician. Edited October 22, 2015 by Guest Quote
eyeball Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 I just don't see how being a substitute drama teacher for one year then going on a speaking tour makes one ready to be PM. How about leading a political party from apparent near oblivion to power? I'm pretty sure I recall hearing something like that when people had misgivings about Harper's apparent lack of experience in the real world outside politics. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
waldo Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 I don't hate Trudeau I just don't see how being a substitute drama teacher for one year then going on a speaking tour makes one ready to be PM. If he wasn't PET's son would he even be leading the Liberal party? Would a drama teacher be leading the Liberal Party if his name was anything other than Trudeau? the election is over... get over it - time to move on. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 How about leading a political party from apparent near oblivion to power? I'm pretty sure I recall hearing something like that when people had misgivings about Harper's apparent lack of experience in the real world outside politics. If someone can point me to the leader anywhere in a liberal democracy that lead his party from third party status to a majority government, increasing his seat count nearly 5.5 times its pre-dissolution count, steam roll over veteran politicians, I'd like to know. I know lots of commentators call every election THE election, and certainly every election has its unique aspects, but I can tell you this, the election I watched on Monday night was like nothing I've ever seen before, and I'm unlikely to see its likes ever again. They'll be writing about this election in fifty years. Quote
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