Argus Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Well, there you are. ---SNIP--- outside our borders. So why vote at all with that attitude? Edited October 1, 2015 by Charles Anthony [---SNIP---] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 We certainly didn't hear this crying when the Liberals won with less than 50% Since the forum didn't exist then, I don't understand what point you're trying to make. Do you think people, like me, who've criticized FPTP care whether it's a Conservative or Liberal in charge? The House is not representative. That's the problem, regardless of who wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 So why vote at all with that attitude? Because someone has to form the top tier of government. Just because I refuse to buy into the partisan view that every election is some sort of apocalyptic choice between absolute good and absolute bad doesn't mean I don't view voting as critical. I just don't buy into the notion that there is actually a course of action that is so right that it will save us, or so wrong that we'll be devastated. But that hardly means that having a government that is accountable to the electorate isn't important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 In any case, it goes to show how empty the debate was, when we have pages of discussion and nobody is talking about the parties' positions on foreign policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 In any case, it goes to show how empty the debate was, when we have pages of discussion and nobody is talking about the parties' positions on foreign policy. And the positions seem to be: Tories - We'll talk a great game about battling the evils of Putin and ISIL, but will continue to largely starve the armed forces of the investment they need. Liberals and NDP - We'll talk a great game about restoring Canada's peacekeeping tradition, but will continue to largely starve the armed forces of the investment they need. In real terms, the only difference, is a few dozen bombs that get dropped on ISIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 And the positions seem to be: Tories - We'll talk a great game about battling the evils of Putin and ISIL, but will continue to largely starve the armed forces of the investment they need. Liberals and NDP - We'll talk a great game about restoring Canada's peacekeeping tradition, but will continue to largely starve the armed forces of the investment they need. In real terms, the only difference, is a few dozen bombs that get dropped on ISIL. Yep. So drop those bombs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yep. So drop those bombs!! I don't disagree with you, but I don't think anyone can reasonably pretend that our contribution to the war on ISIS is any more than a token contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't disagree with you, but I don't think anyone can reasonably pretend that our contribution to the war on ISIS is any more than a token contribution. Oh yeah, definitely agreed. It's a half ***ed response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Honestly - that's really a valid view and I understand it. I personally think that our government is more open and accountable than it was 15 or 20 or 30 years ago. It seems that you can't really hide much anymore......and you only need to look at Sona, Del Maestro, Duffy and Wright to know that there is more accountability.Sona was a patsy who took the fall for others - a much more serious case IMO than Del Mastro's who refused to reach a reasonable deal. Re Duffy, the PMO had to get caught doing something wrong eventually given that it runs the country now, which is the real scandal.One example from too many of a lack of accountability - oversight of CSIS. C-51 was a chance to put the Porter years behind us but the Conservatives blew it. An extraordinary amount of information can now be shared among various agencies and the public has no way of knowing if this will be done appropriately. Only the government will have its privacy protected. Edited October 1, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I just watched the debates again. Trudeau really pisses me off. Stop cutting people off you petulant child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I just watched the debates again. Trudeau really pisses me off. Stop cutting people off you petulant child. Wow, complaining about someone showboating at what has to be the biggest showboating event in an election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderfish Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Please read up on how our election process works.Please re-read my post and try to pay attention to the context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderfish Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Since the forum didn't exist then, I don't understand what point you're trying to make. Do you think people, like me, who've criticized FPTP care whether it's a Conservative or Liberal in charge? The House is not representative. That's the problem, regardless of who wins. I thought my point was pretty clear, I was simply trying to clarify that you may have misssed marcus' point. Your response of " Shady conjured up angry supporters, so why cant I" seemed a little weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Folks, Stop the personal attacks. This thread is filled with childishness. From this point onwards, anybody who tries to sneak in some trolling or who responds to trolling will take a brief vacation. Ch. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Sona was a patsy who took the fall for others - a much more serious case IMO than Del Mastro's who refused to reach a reasonable deal. Re Duffy, the PMO had to get caught doing something wrong eventually given that it runs the country now, which is the real scandal. One example from too many of a lack of accountability - oversight of CSIS. C-51 was a chance to put the Porter years behind us but the Conservatives blew it. An extraordinary amount of information can now be shared among various agencies and the public has no way of knowing if this will be done appropriately. Only the government will have its privacy protected. That's all "inside the Ottawa bubble" stuff. I know I'm boring some - but "everyday" Canadians really don't care that much about the Ottawa bubble......that's why "gut" issues like the Niqab carry so much weight......and now that people are starting to pay attention, it's showing up in the polls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 That's all "inside the Ottawa bubble" stuff. I know I'm boring some - but "everyday" Canadians really don't care that much about the Ottawa bubble......that's why "gut" issues like the Niqab carry so much weight......and now that people are starting to pay attention, it's showing up in the polls. I hope the election is not won on the niqab. That would be a very sad reflection on the maturity of the electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Is this really true? People, including Reform and Harper himself, did complain about the electoral system at that time, from what I recall. Even as a teenager, I was aware of it. I don't recall Reform or the Alliance wanting to to change FPTP, they did want more direct democracy, such as referendums, initiatives and recall along with a triple E Senate. It's a shame that the PCs completely swallowed the Alliance as that was all lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I hope the election is not won on the niqab. That would be a very sad reflection on the maturity of the electorate.I don't believe it's strictly about the niqab issue. I think many Canadians are turned off by the Liberals and the NDP going counter to the stated wishes of the majority of Canadians who do want the niqab removed when the oath of citizenship is taken. If those parties disregard what they knew full well was of concern to the majority, how would they act on other issues if they win government? No doubt, many Canadians are asking themselves that question, me included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I thought my point was pretty clear, I was simply trying to clarify that you may have misssed marcus' point. Your response of " Shady conjured up angry supporters, so why cant I" seemed a little weak. You said it was a red herring. My point is that it's not a red herring when it's specifically related to the comment Shady made. So I guess now you're admitting it was not a red herring, since you recognize they're exactly the same argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't believe it's strictly about the niqab issue. I think many Canadians are turned off by the Liberals and the NDP going counter to the stated wishes of the majority of Canadians who do want the niqab removed when the oath of citizenship is taken. "I don't think it's about the niqab. It's about the niqab." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I hope the election is not won on the niqab. That would be a very sad reflection on the maturity of the electorate.I strongly concur with that. Harper keeps flogging the issue, especially when he's in PQ, as a way of deflecting attention from real issues. After all, we are talking about 2 women who have refused to cover for the ceremony. Not exactly earth shattering but it keeps nasty words like recession and economy off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 "I don't think it's about the niqab. It's about the niqab." I still maintain it's also about the Liberals and the NDP thumbing their noses at the demonstrated wishes of the majority of Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Folks, Stop the personal attacks. Says the guy who smells like feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I hope the election is not won on the niqab. That would be a very sad reflection on the maturity of the electorate. You have to understand the rawness of the general electorate. The silent majority believes in immigration - but they also strongly believe in integration. The Niqab represents the giant wart of Multi-culturalism - the ability to live almost completely separate from Canadian society and shun integration. The public at large is saying "enough is enough". They "feel" it's not right. It matters little what you or I think - that's just the way it is. Edited October 1, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I still maintain it's also about the Liberals and the NDP thumbing their noses at the demonstrated wishes of the majority of Canadians. Part of the beauty of our charter is that it protects certain individual rights, regardless of which way the wind is blowing this week or next regarding majority wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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