The Invasion of Europe - Germany to take in 800,000 migrants

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

Talk about thread drift! Is this thread drift catering to our new contributing member?

Edited August 22, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

Bonam · August 22, 2015

It should be obvious that Canada is already accepting immigrants and refugees at a rate that puts a strain on (or perhaps surpasses) Canada's ability to successfully integrate all the newcomers. Taking in even more would be self-destructive. Of course, that doesn't prevent politicians from promising to do so if they think it will get them short term political gains.

kraychik · August 22, 2015

Talk about thread drift! Is this thread drift catering to our new contributing member?

I'm like the Altneuland of MLW.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

It should be obvious that Canada is already accepting immigrants and refugees at a rate that puts a strain on (or perhaps surpasses) Canada's ability to successfully integrate all the newcomers. Taking in even more would be self-destructive. Of course, that doesn't prevent politicians from promising to do so if they think it will get them short term political gains.

Do you have any cites to indicate that taking in more would be self-destructive? How is it obvious that there is a strain?

What do you think of the 'Express Entry Immigration Program'?

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

I'm like the Altneuland of MLW.

Oh please. Take it down a notch.

Bonam · August 22, 2015

Do you have any cites to indicate that taking in more would be self-destructive? How is it obvious that there is a strain?

I've found that it's generally not worth the effort to post cites on these forums. For one, they take time to find, and secondly, they are usually dismissed out of hand anyway if the person requesting them disagrees with what they say. The very low level of discussion on this forum does not warrant the effort to do it.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

I've found that it's generally not worth the effort to post cites on these forums. For one, they take time to find, and secondly, they are usually dismissed out of hand anyway if the person requesting them disagrees with what they say. The very low level of discussion on this forum does not warrant the effort to do it.

ok, then you can't back up what you have stated. And you didn't address the 'Express Entry Immigration Program'.

Edited August 22, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

Michael Hardner · August 22, 2015

I've found that it's generally not worth the effort to post cites on these forums. For one, they take time to find, and secondly, they are usually dismissed out of hand anyway if the person requesting them disagrees with what they say.

Well, without facts there's little to hang an argument on. Peoples minds are changed without their knowing it, and that starts with facts. "They take time to find"... we're talking a quick Google search not driving to the library. Do it, it makes the forum better and you may learn something about your own opinion.

Bonam · August 22, 2015

ok, then you can't back up what you have stated.

Argus has spent many threads posting various links regarding the costs and problems associated with the current levels of immigration to Canada. Go review some of those. I stand by my statement.

bush_cheney2004 · August 22, 2015

I've found that it's generally not worth the effort to post cites on these forums. For one, they take time to find, and secondly, they are usually dismissed out of hand anyway if the person requesting them disagrees with what they say. The very low level of discussion on this forum does not warrant the effort to do it.

Agreed...it is just another debating tactic. This is not a court of law....and a "cite" is hardly proof of anything for someone determined to ignore it anyway..

Michael Hardner · August 22, 2015

I stand by my statement.

It sounds like you stand by Argus' statements - since he's good at backing his up. He's got some good arguments against immigration too - have you read them ? They will challenge you, I guarantee.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

Argus has spent many threads posting various links regarding the costs and problems associated with the current levels of immigration to Canada. Go review some of those. I stand by my statement.

what a copout.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

Agreed...it is just another debating tactic. This is not a court of law....and a "cite" is hardly proof of anything for someone determined to ignore it anyway..

We know it's not a court of law. It's a friggin forum!

Bonam · August 22, 2015

It sounds like you stand by Argus' statements - since he's good at backing his up. He's got some good arguments against immigration too - have you read them ? They will challenge you, I guarantee.

Yes, I've read them.

kraychik · August 22, 2015

Agreed...it is just another debating tactic. This is not a court of law....and a "cite" is hardly proof of anything for someone determined to ignore it anyway..

More importantly, they ask for evidence they know doesn't exist in scientific format. I love when people posture as academics and give the full-throated demand for "peer-reviewed studies". When hearing that, you instantly know you're dealing with a (likely simple-minded) pedant.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

Yes, I've read them.

What do you think of the 'Express Entry program'?

kraychik · August 22, 2015

Imagine putting immigration policy to a national referendum in Canada, or any leading European country. And imagine only asking those who've either been citizens for at least twenty years. The immigration/invasion status quo would die, right there (at least symbolically).

Bonam · August 22, 2015

What do you think of the 'Express Entry program'?

It sounds like it's a program designed to select immigrants that have relevant skills/experience to contribute to Canada's economy. I agree with that intent, to the extent that we decide to bring in immigrants at all, they should be ones chosen based on such criteria. I have not researched how effective it is in achieving its intent.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

It sounds like it's a program designed to select immigrants that have relevant skills/experience to contribute to Canada's economy. I agree with that intent, to the extent that we decide to bring in immigrants at all, they should be ones chosen based on such criteria. I have not researched how effective it is in achieving its intent.

Have you even heard of this program before I brought it to your attention?

Bonam · August 22, 2015

If you have a point to make regarding that program and how it relates to this thread, make it.

WestCoastRunner · August 22, 2015

If you have a point to make regarding that program and how it relates to this thread, make it.

My point is that you know not much about the immigration policy of Canada or the impact and you rely on other members opinions that could be full of holes.

Edited August 22, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

kraychik · August 22, 2015

I've never heard of the program. I don't like the sound of it, though. As they say, though, don't judge a book by its cover.

Like Bonam said, if you've got a point, make it. Educate us.

Rue · August 22, 2015

Here is the politically incorrect part of the discussion y'all are dancing around but Argus never does...

the cold hard reality is, people of certain values do not when they come to Canada assimilate and become problematic.

To be specific the assimilation comes about because they will not modify standards they bring with them such as:

1-views on cleanliness

2-views on density of persons per square inch, foot, mile

3-views on morality, sex, marriage

4-views on individuality.

Social studies have shown the no.1 reason people do not get along believe it or not is clashes over cleanliness, our beliefs as to personal hygiene. We think its religion, politics, but its cleanliness.

Next comes physical space. You can have the nicest people in the world living together but if they are too condensed, they break down and commit crimes and anti social crimes to be specific.

Next comes moral values. If someone is brought up to believe they should be covered head to toe, marry 4 wives, that homosexuals are evil that people outside their religion are infidel, it won't work. Those are not building block values.

Immigration has never been the problem but the type if immigrant and how they will adapt is.

No one but no one has a problem with law abiding, hard working immigrants that put Canada first.

The controversy comes when we discuss what makes a bad immigrant, i.e., someone being negative to Canadian society.

Is it all unfair stereotype to say certain characteristics of an immigrant are not conducive to a healthy Canadian society?

Is that automatically racist or some other ist or ism?

As a Jew it was not long ago McKenzie King stated we were vermin and sent us back to Hitler to die. It wasn't long ago we were segregated and thought of us undesireable. There is no doubt at all after WW2 because of the holocaust there was a liberal guilt reaction that slowly swung the pendulum the other way and today our sense of tolerance and thinking we can be everything to everyone comes from a psychological collective guilt to that holocaust.

Immigrants traditionally escape famines, flooding and earthquakes so called man mad e or natural disasters. Often its triggered by lack of water and global warming and desertification in India, Africa and China is causing a tidal wave of people moving looking for water and food.

Political turmoil in the ME of course has set off another tidal wave of movement but the no.1 cause of movement is Africans, Arabs and Asians with no water or food. They have nothing to loose.

Their values are not that of the ideal immigrant of course not. Their surge is based on primal need for water, food and shelter and when they come they have no coping skills. They spent those on the criminals who smuggled them to where they end up and surviving the trip. After that they are literally spent, shells of humans with nothing to loose but life. They aren't interested in the many cultures in Europe. They want food, water and shelter. Learning the language, getting a job, not there. Its just not there.

They are not capable of assimilating like middle class professionals. They don't speak another language and they do not have transferable skills.

In the old days such people would starve to death. They could not travel. Today they have cell phones and access to boats and planes they never used to have which has shrunk the world. The cell phone brings them visions of a world they want. They can not understand how they live in such primal conditions while others live in a world to them which seems like a world of ideal luxury.

We don't want to discuss that in Canada. We get into b.s. discussions how we are a utopia and a wonderful place for everyone to just magicaly appear and drink Tim Horton's and live happily after.

Its been my knowledge that those quick to discuss how tolerant they are of Muslims or other people from cultures whose values conflict with outs are the biggest bigots. They smile through politically correct teeth but it is a superficial tolerance because when these newcomers don't get work, repdocue in volume, support ideas and values contrary to Canada's and demand rights to remain different and entitled, suddenly that liberal smile runs out.

With my own people. no I do not think it realistic for a Jewish person to remain removed from mainstream society and live separate and apart. I do not agree with ultra orthodox Jews. I don't agree with their separated lifestyles that create a wall and prevent mixing. To me it does not build a nation it breaks it down-it generate stagnant pools of inbreeding.

I don't support it. I maintain the exact same argument with any fundamentalist of any religion. Now someone says, does that mean I hate Amish? Do I hate these ultra orthodox Jews do I want to deport them? No. Why? Because they follow the laws of the land, t hey hurt no one, and they do assimilate when they have to.

Now when we discuss Muslim immigrants a lot of liberal trendy leftists on this site cringe. They immediately act all tolerant. The fact is there is wide range of Muslim immigrants. Amidya Muslims are peaceful, wonderful citizens. Ismailis excel. Progressive Sunni and Shiite Muslims have moved on past their antiquated forms of religion like we Jews, Christians, etc.

However the fact is we can not and it is stupid to think certain Muslims now running from chaos will assimilate in Europe or North America.

It was stupid to think you just can dump Somalians in Canada and they would magically assimilate.

So the discussion then becomes if you don't talk reality and why certain immigrants don't assimilate and remain in denial about that, your immigration policy will just continue to ignore the problem and make it worse.

Europe is faced with a sea of economic migrants or poverty migrants made that way by man me desertification, pollution and wars.

These are not people coming to cherish your values and institutions. They don't like you. They find your liberal smarminess disgusting. They know you resent them beneath the smile. They will take whatever they are given and try get more. You put a slice of pie in front of a hungry dirty man, he will want more.

Is that incorrect to say, no its not. Some of you think wolf puppies are cute. They grow and when they do, they can not be controlled.

The reality is the zones generating immigrants who will clash and cause intolerant reaction and fuel eventually extremist backlash might be better off staying in their countries if we gave them hope to stay there and helped them build self sufficiency instead of draining their brains and turning them into our fast food servers.

Foreign aid to such projects has all but dried up. Its been replaced with military purchases for specific terror cells and armed forces.

No the West is not to blame at this point. The corrupt extremists in these countries are who prevent democracy, cooperation, and training.

Mugabe in Zimbabwe is a classic example of a socialist darling he leftist world touted. Look at the tyrants in the Middle East buffered by their Muslim councils. That is not our fault.

Corrupt oil multinationals yes they do back corrupt oil monarchies but the choice to kill each other because they are not the right kind of Muslim or ae a Jew, Christian, etc., that begins and ends with the people of such countries. They are their own worst enemy and we need to help the people of their nations find ways to run their own countries in a more just manner and one where hey become self sufficient and independent of us and their tyrants.

Easier said that done.

In any event that is all Argus has said in the past. The difference though is he has never sugar coated his words. That is also what Boman is getting at. The problem is none of you want long explanations, but then without them you misquote people.

Argus has never stated anything other than an immigrant has to want to come to Canada and be Canadian and not expect anything but hard work to achieve that. He is no bigot. I can handle him saying stop whining and work. Its a fact. No special treatment. Pull your damn sleeves up and work.

Most of us immigrants or sons and daughters of them get that. We do not feel entitled to anything. We don't quote the charter.

We learn about Britain, France, aboriginal history and respect all three. We respect the soil. We respect the traditions that keep the country from blowing apart into civil war.

No I do not want to see people starve to death but the reality is its cruel to dump people in environments they can't cope in and leave them to a life of alcoholism.

marcus · August 23, 2015

No, we owe our children to preserve what we made for them, not to bury it in a mass of illiterate foreign goat herders who have no job skills, will never pay any taxes

How do you know who is an illiterate goat herder with no job skills and will never pay any taxes?

This is your problem. You decide to grab a brush and paint everything the same colour from your can of ignorance and bigotry.

WIP · August 25, 2015

Naturally, the left wants to usher in national suicide by pulling emotional strings with photographs of migrants/refugees on a dinghy. #Compassion #Feelings #EconomicsBeDamned #CultureBeDamned

Yes, the last thing the right wants is to be presented with the images of suffering that they cause through their economic and military policies!