Leaders debate Aug 6

[PrimeNumber]

It was really interesting to see Mulcair working overtime to paint the NDP as the centrist party between the Greens and the Conservatives, while completely ignoring Justin over at the kids' table.

This is what I think can win an election. He's playing responsible poker. May's all out answer is to passive and Harpers all in style is to aggressive to win an election at this time.

[PrimeNumber]

These guys on City's after show think Trudeau won..... were they watching the same debate?

[Smallc]

These guys on City's after show think Trudeau won..... were they watching the same debate?

So did the people on the other page I visit. Weird. They said I was seeing what I wanted to when I said he looked pathetic.

[PrimeNumber]

So did the people on the other page I visit. Weird. They said I was seeing what I wanted to when I said he looked pathetic.

Well I'm glad almost everyone here is pretty unanimous on that. He didn't really bring anything to the table. He just commented on what we need to fix not how to go about it. No actual substance.He has no plan, which is scary for a potential PM.

[-1=e^ipi]

May did better than here:

These guys on City's after show think Trudeau won..... were they watching the same debate?

They are biased hipsters. A lot of people will think the person that preached to their choir won, regardless of performance. Ignore them.

[blueblood]

Well I'm glad almost everyone here is pretty unanimous on that. He didn't really bring anything to the table. He just commented on what we need to fix not how to go about it. No actual substance.He has no plan, which is scary for a potential PM.

Im wondering what the metrics are for a "win". It almost seems that a knockout punch = loss as it would be "bullying". Debate went as i thought.

Dont be expecting anything different from harper, he will keep on playing it safe.

[PrimeNumber]

Im wondering what the metrics are for a "win". It almost seems that a knockout punch = loss as it would be "bullying". Debate went as i thought.

Dont be expecting anything different from harper, he will keep on playing it safe.

I think just being knowledgeable about what your saying, not lying or at least not getting called out on lying, being calm and trying not to stammer to much can win you a debate but in the end it comes down to punches landed and Trudeau threw a lot of haymakers but couldn't connect. Harper was hit with a lot of hard jabs but stood his ground. May was dancing around them all like she was two-steps ahead and Mulcair just kind of rolled along jabbing at Harper and Trudeau whenever he got the chance. Though I guess many in Ontario think justin is still their golden boy... somehow..

[cybercoma]

So did the people on the other page I visit. Weird. They said I was seeing what I wanted to when I said he looked pathetic.

So did people on Facebook, reading comments on the stories. It's like they watched a completely different debate.

[Smallc]

So did people on Facebook, reading comments on the stories. It's like they watched a completely different debate.

Maybe it will have the opposite effect of what we both thought? I'm usually pretty good at reading these things.

[PrimeNumber]

Does our dislike for Trudeau cloud our judgement that much?

[Smallc]

Does our dislike for Trudeau cloud our judgement that much?

Harper, May, and Mulcair all brought facts to the debate. What did Trudeau bring?

[blueblood]

Does our dislike for Trudeau cloud our judgement that much?

I think the experts are saying trudeau "won" the debate as expectiations were so low for him that all he had to do was make it through without putting his foot in his mouth and to hang with the big boys. Check.

[-1=e^ipi]

Harper, May, and Mulcair all brought facts to the debate. What did Trudeau bring?

Nice hair.

[On Guard for Thee]

I think the experts are saying trudeau "won" the debate as expectiations were so low for him that all he had to do was make it through without putting his foot in his mouth and to hang with the big boys. Check.

Not unlike Harper's requirement. I don't thi anybody won this one. And with this marathon campaign, it will be gone like summer wages.

[blueblood]

Not unlike Harper's requirement. I don't thi anybody won this one. And with this marathon campaign, it will be gone like summer wages.

I agree. These guys are so well coached and prepared i cant see anything being decided at debates.

[poochy]

Harper was Harper, Mulcair didn't come across well at times, May is smart, but mostly irrelevant, and no matter how much I listen to Trudeau I just don't believe the words that come out of his mouth are connected to thoughts that originate in his own mind, he looks like he is playing a role, maybe they all are, but it's seems more noticeable with him.

None of this is very inspiring, though i did take that poll posted in another sub forum, and apparently im liberally green, so go May!...i guess.

[hitops]

Harper was Harper, Mulcair didn't come across well at times, May is smart, but mostly irrelevant, and no matter how much I listen to Trudeau I just don't believe the words that come out of his mouth are connected to thoughts that originate in his own mind, he looks like he is playing a role, maybe they all are, but it's seems more noticeable with him.

None of this is very inspiring, though i did take that poll posted in another sub forum, and apparently im liberally green, so go May!...i guess.

Yep pretty much this. What JT says simply has no meaning, or at least it comes across the way.

The way I would sum it up would be to say that of the four, Trudeau appears to not care about what he's saying. I get the genuine sense that the other three truly believe and have some passion for what they are saying. Trudeau is just trying to sound nice and couldn't care less what his lines actually are, just wants to deliver them.

So did people on Facebook, reading comments on the stories. It's like they watched a completely different debate.

I don't think this means much. It is the same as the Facebook poll the macleans hosts mentioned at the start of the debate where they emphasized that majority favored carbon pricing. Same problem in both cases - it is a facebook poll. Obviously this will disproportionately represent younger people, and disproportionately those with the highest social media usage. Not even close to sampling of Canadian opinion at large.

I can't prove it, but I would remain confident that facebook usage-hours directly correlates with inability to make informed decisions.

Edited August 7, 2015 by hitops

[Derek 2.0]

I think your dislike towards Mulcair, is making something that I don't think anyone else cares about, more of a point than it should be.

I dislike Trudeau too, but I don't feel that he won the debate (nobody won it), but that he'll gain the most out of it.......perhaps May too, or at least reverse the Press Gallery incident.......Harper didn't win or lose, just as in past debates, but maintained his cool despite the onslaught, well defusing "his roll" in the Senate scandal politically, muting the issue going forward.......Mulcair, at first seemed too calm (like valium calm) but then launched into rudeness with Trudeau, ignored May and though berated Harper, did so in a more diplomatic fashion, far more then his past performances in QP.......he came across as unnatural, repetitive and rude, well admitting that there will be a carbon tax, coupled to increases in CPP and EI deductions for average Canadians........

I thought Mulcair would have done better, well handling Trudeau with a polite indifference........a perceived front-runner, leading or tied in the polls, doesn't need, nor should, come across as a jerk, (Maybe could have been one towards Harper, but didn't), namely to the leader of the other left of center party, a party that he needs to take away vote share.......

In the next few days I'd be interested in seeing the polling results among Women........we, as in the Tories, learned over a year ago that to attack Justin Trudeau, one must do it in a diplomatic and polite fashion, pointing out his deficiencies with tact, not with sneering rudeness.

[Derek 2.0]

Maybe it will have the opposite effect of what we both thought? I'm usually pretty good at reading these things.

I think so, likewise Michael Den Tandt:

There were no knockout punches, nor even many moments of high drama. All four participants, paradoxically enough, did themselves some good. But even so, on balance, it was Justin Trudeau’s night.

The Liberal leader came to the first debate of Campaign 2015, staged by Maclean’s and deftly moderated by the magazine’s political editor, Paul Wells, with a clear imperative: he needed to show he could match wits with Stephen Harper and Tom Mulcair and walk away from the encounter, while offering an approach to governing he thinks will appeal to more voters than the other plans on offer. He did that, time and time again. Just by virtue of the fact he acquitted himself honourably, following months of attack ads that billed him as a gaffe-prone bumbler, Trudeau won.

As I said, I was surprised Trudeau did so well, inversely, that Mulcair didn't do better, better as in avoiding rudeness and cheesy one liners (that is what the attack adds are for!!), resulting in getting some mud on his own suit.....we'll see if it has any effect in the next several days, but I wouldn't be surprised with a slight Trudeau bump at the expense of Mulcair.......

[hitops]

I think so, likewise......

I get it that people will have different opinions, but what debate was he watching? Trudeau? You've got to be kidding me, he was the worst bar none. Maybe he means compared to his speeches from a year ago or something?

[PrimeNumber]

If you watched any of the city news coverage after the debate they went around to some students at a local university as well as a local family's household to get their impressions. It seems as though all the leaders did well to them but among the people asked Mulcair was still the name mentioned as being most favourable in contrast to Harper. With some of the students saying it's Harper's time to go.
I've been saying it for the last few years and I'll continue saying it until election day.. Harper has turned a large majority of the second largest voter demographic in the country against him. His ignorance of environmental and political policies not to mention his many scandals is turning young people against him. They are pissed off and they will vote. Never under estimate pissed off youth. Unfortunately Harper has done just that. He's struck a chord with them, albiet a rotten one. I see and hear about it every single day. I don't expect you to believe me, you think very little of the youth of this country and I don't blame you for that. But they will vote and they won't be voting for Harper. I reckon we see one of the largest youth voter turnouts in the history of this country come October.

[Derek 2.0]

I get it that people will have different opinions, but what debate was he watching? Trudeau? You've got to be kidding me, he was the worst bar none. Maybe he means compared to his speeches from a year ago or something?

I think, as he noted, expectations were so low for Trudeau going in........I'm a CPC supporter, and dislike both the Liberals and NDP equally for countless reasons, but in an attempt at being unbiased, I feel Trudeau did well parroting his platform, well remaining calm, well lending a level of decorum (like Harper) in his "attacks" on the others........

Mulcair's tone, namely on the Clarity Act portion, was something I'd expect from an idiot on a Strata council, not someone that wants to lead G7 nation.........likewise (my wife just reminded me) even the tone he took with the moderator over an Article 5 call from NATO with regards to the Ukraine.....clearly the moderator stated if Russian attacked a surrounding country, not Ukraine, yet Mulcair sarcastically pointed out that Ukraine was not apart of NATO (even though it was never suggested to be) to dance around the issue...........

No, Mulcair sounded like a sarcastic jerk lawyer in court..........Trudeau sounded like a person, though aloof, you'd wouldn't mind if he and his family moved in next door to you.....

[jbg]

I thought Harper's performance was a bit flat and boring. That being said maybe he's better playing a cautious and close to the ground game. The economy is pretty good and there are still three parties to carve up the rest of the vote. Maybe not a bad place to be.

[kimmy]

Like everybody else, I'm baffled by the positive press Trudeau's performance has received. I don't think he was awful, I just don't think he did anything that great.

For me, the only one who made gains was Elizabeth May, and that's probably because her last performance in a national debate set the bar so low for her that anything short of spontaneous combustion would have been an improvement. Last time out she came across as a shrill, annoying, overstimulated idiot. This time, she seemed calm and acted like she knew she belonged there. She had several pertinent points, and was well-spoken. This was by far her best performance on a national stage. It's not a game-changer-- the Greens are still irrelevant-- but my opinion of her greatly improved.

For the other three, they delivered more or less what was expected. Harper was his old stodgy self. Nothing exciting, but no gaffes either. I wasn't terribly inspired by his response to attacks on his budget deficits. I thought Mulcair was ok. I don't know if anything went really wrong or really right for him. I don't know if he won any new fans, but I doubt he lost any votes either. I think his goal was probably to convince people that he's not a business-hating tax-and-spender, and I'm not sure whether he succeeded or not. For me the only thing that jumped out about Trudeau was his attack on Mulcair re: the clarity act, and his defense of his party's position on C-51.

I thought the debate format itself was ok, and that Paul Wells did pretty well. I hope we have more of these. I would like to hear more about domestic policy next time.

-k

[poochy]

students at a local university

I reckon we see one of the largest youth voter turnouts in the history of this country come October.

Gee, i havent heard that before