On Guard for Thee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Explain the longevity of PET.......the man was more of a prick introvert than Harper.......come to think of it, I can't think of one Canadian Prime Minster that one would peg as personable....Canadians elect Nixons, not Reagans. OMG. Maybe you weren't around during the PET years. He had more personality in his baby finger, and didn't mind displaying it. Harper hides in the shadows whenever he can. Quote
hitops Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Warawa would be a really bad example for you to post. It would totally backfire to your case if you look at what actually happened, and I assume we are talking the abortion issue. It was kind of funny watching the NDP's brains explode when they couldn't decide whether to yell about Harper being too controlling or not controlling enough over Warawa. In the end they decided to sort of do a bizarre mix of both, naturally contradicting themselves. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 It was kind of funny watching the NDP's brains explode when they couldn't decide whether to yell about Harper being too controlling or not controlling enough over Warawa. In the end they decided to sort of do a bizarre mix of both, naturally contradicting themselves. Warawa wasn't an NDP issue. What was funny was watching Harper struggle to smack him down, without adding to his reputation as dictator. Quote
eyeball Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Just be aware that the NDPs interest will be in the welfare of the fish, not the fishermen. If there is every any sort of decision to be made that decision will come down on the side of the envornment, not you. The NDP care about the environment way, way, way more than those who profit (eek! That horrible word!) from KILLING fish and animals. For example, seal population growing and taking more and more fish? Well then, the only solution will be to cut back on human fisheries. Because you can be damn sure they won't sanction killing seals. Just base our management on the coast. First things first. I'm also betting the NDP will authorize sacrificing fish that billionaires like Jimmy Pattison depend on before sacrificing fish that people closer to the normal end of the income divide depend on. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Over forty years... Not one of them was under a federal party in Ottawa that's talked about area-based management. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jacee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 I'm with you, I'd rather sink with Harper then sink with Justin or Tom. Well I hope you get your druthers. ? Quote
jacee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Argus, on 03 Aug 2015 - 10:22 AM, said: Just be aware that the NDPs interest will be in the welfare of the fish, not the fishermen. ? That's friggen hilarious!The NDP has always been dissed by Conservatives for being the workers' party. I guess that wasn't working for you anymore, since most Canadians - VOTERS - are working people, self employed or otherwise. So now we're the fish party. ?? TFF And we're going to raise your taxes Argus ... but only if you're rich enough to afford it. Oh we know that the rich bosses don't like that. But there really aren't very many of them compared to the number of working people, and they each only get one vote. For an example ... look at the Alberta election map: Just a few teeny weeny rich patches. While the Libs & Cons cater to the rich, the NDP is the only party that puts working people - the vast majority of Canadians - first. And fish. We like fish too. Working people - Canadians - need food, water, air. Taking care of the environment is about taking care of ourselves. . Edited August 4, 2015 by jacee Quote
hitops Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Warawa wasn't an NDP issue. What was funny was watching Harper struggle to smack him down, without adding to his reputation as dictator. That's exactly the point. The other leaders manage to instantly smack down anyone going off messages. Harper not nearly as much. But of course it's Harper who's the dictator right? Quote
overthere Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 And we're going to raise your taxes Argus ... but only if you're rich enough to afford it. You could raise the taxes of the wealthy a hundredfold and it would not make any significant difference in the countries revenues. All it would do is make the rich into poor, or prompt them to leave, taking capital and jobs with them. Raise corporate taxes accordingly, and jobs will vaporize as global money leaves for greener pastures. Your bleating then will be epic, and the culprit will be the visioanry you see in your mirror. All the money comes from the middle class, the poor dont pay pay taxes. You don't have to repeat promises from the NDP to raise taxes, we get they will do that and it will be taxes on everybody and everything. They'll also borrow massively. They cannot possibly make the hard choices that MUST be made in Canada in the next couple of decades, and doubly so to fulfill all the promises to fatten our already plump social contract. I think that in the final summary we may be screwed, by our own doing. We refuse to acknowledge the reality of our situation, and in fact cannot even have any kind of mature national conversation about it. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
cybercoma Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 The other leaders manage to instantly smack down anyone going off messages. Harper not nearly as much.Riiight. Quote
Argus Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Posted August 4, 2015 Explain the longevity of PET.......the man was more of a prick introvert than Harper.......come to think of it, I can't think of one Canadian Prime Minster that one would peg as personable....Canadians elect Nixons, not Reagans. What are you, kidding? Trudeau an introvert!? This is the guy who danced behind the Queen, right? Trudeau was an extrovert, a great speaker, and extremely charismatic. He also had the benefit of the French factor, which meant he started off every election guaranteed to get one third of the seats in the country simply because he was Liberal. Even so, he had lots of trouble, and finally was forced to 'take a walk in the snow' because he knew he'd be destroyed in the following election. Then he took advantage of Joe Clark's ineptitude and in combination with the NDP forced him out of power over the seven cent gas tax proposal, decrying it as damaging to the economy - until he got back in and put in a higher gas tax. Harper has all the charisma of Al Gore, and is famously introverted. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Posted August 4, 2015 Just base our management on the coast. First things first. I'm also betting the NDP will authorize sacrificing fish that billionaires like Jimmy Pattison depend on before sacrificing fish that people closer to the normal end of the income divide depend on. They'll sacrifice fishermen before they sacrifice seals, I'll tell you that. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Posted August 4, 2015 And we're going to raise your taxes Argus ... but only if you're rich enough to afford it. Oh we know that the rich bosses don't like that. But there really aren't very many of them compared to the number of working people, and they each only get one vote. Let's ponder the coldly mercenary aspect of the above. The NDP are going to raise my taxes, although Mulcair has promised not to - because there's fewer of us than there are of other people, so we have fewer votes. I won't even dwell over the presumption that anyone who has succeeded in life is the enemy of the NDP and that socialists feel it is their right to take as much money from successful people as they want. Liberals evidently feel much the same way. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
blueblood Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 ? That's friggen hilarious! The NDP has always been dissed by Conservatives for being the workers' party. I guess that wasn't working for you anymore, since most Canadians - VOTERS - are working people, self employed or otherwise. So now we're the fish party. ?? TFF And we're going to raise your taxes Argus ... but only if you're rich enough to afford it. Oh we know that the rich bosses don't like that. But there really aren't very many of them compared to the number of working people, and they each only get one vote. For an example ... look at the Alberta election map: Just a few teeny weeny rich patches. While the Libs & Cons cater to the rich, the NDP is the only party that puts working people - the vast majority of Canadians - first. And fish. We like fish too. Working people - Canadians - need food, water, air. Taking care of the environment is about taking care of ourselves. . I want you to take a good hard look at venezuela and i mean a real good hard look. Their politicians had a stick it to the rich attitude and look what happened. Their rich people fled to panama and florida, inflation is sky high, crime is sky high, and their economy is in tatters. Yet their neighbour columbia took a pro business attitude and is in a much much better position. This is why people fear socialism. It has PROVEN to be a failure. USSR anyone... Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
The_Squid Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) I want you to take a good hard look at venezuela and i mean a real good hard look. Their politicians had a stick it to the rich attitude and look what happened. Their rich people fled to panama and florida, inflation is sky high, crime is sky high, and their economy is in tatters. Yet their neighbour columbia took a pro business attitude and is in a much much better position. This is why people fear socialism. It has PROVEN to be a failure. USSR anyone... Canada = Venezuela if the NDP win.... Now there's a new attack ad!! Could work... as long as people completely turn their brains off... seriously... is this what Conservative Party hacks are trying to convince people of? Do they actually believe it themselves? Edited August 4, 2015 by The_Squid Quote
blueblood Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Canada = Venezuela if the NDP win.... Now there's a new attack ad!! Could work... as long as people completely turn their brains off... seriously... is this what Conservative Party hacks are trying to convince people of? Do they actually believe it themselves? Well people think that rich people should pay their "fair share" even though they are the ones providing jobs, investing money in others, saving money in banks, and spending a lot of it. Venezuela thought rich people should pay their share too...Or we can compare saskatchewan and manitoba. One has a balanced budget and one is almost 420 million in deficit. Which one has an ndp govt? Edited August 4, 2015 by blueblood Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
The_Squid Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Well people think that rich people should pay their "fair share" even though they are the ones providing jobs, investing money in others, saving money in banks, and spending a lot of it. Venezuela thought rich people should pay their share too... You're right... that must make Canada exactly like Venezuela if the NDP gets in... how could I not see that before? Vote Harper if you don't want Hugo Chavez running Canada. Vote Harper... or the rich people will all be eaten Quote
jacee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Let's ponder the coldly mercenary aspect of the above. The NDP are going to raise my taxes, although Mulcair has promised not to - because there's fewer of us than there are of other people, so we have fewer votes. I won't even dwell over the presumption that anyone who has succeeded in life is the enemy of the NDP and that socialists feel it is their right to take as much money from successful people as they want. A lot of them are predatory leeches who are 'successful' by stomping on others and taking more than they deserve ... Did you not read about the IMF report? imf-labour-deregulation-not-working/ The attack, however, has been carried out largely on the backs of working Canadians. And now we have proof - the decrease in unionization rates has largely fed the increase in incomes of those at the top. - no evidence that the neo-liberal deregulatory reforms had any positive impact on labour markets and economic growth. Liberals evidently feel much the same way.No they don't. That's just lip service.. Edited August 4, 2015 by jacee Quote
overthere Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Hugo Chavez has been dead for quite a while. In an almost impossible scenario, his successor has stuck to his retarded economic policies and Venezuela is a failed state now. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
WIP Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 Clark being an exception because he was ever so slightly conservative on fiscal issues, you mean? He was brought down because he said we needed a 7c gas tax to help fund roads and lower our deficit. The entire election was over that. After the Liberals won they imposed a 12c gas tax. But they had a majority so they could make a tough decision. Clark tried to make a rough decision with a minority and the opposition, political opportunists all, pounced. I'm not questioning his integrity or even his objectives; I'm talking about Joe Clark the political strategist..who either had a tin ear or a tin head! A couple of federal elections ago, a similar thing happened to Stephan Dion, who believed he had a strong case to propose a national carbon tax, and overrode his advisers concerns that the Conservatives would sandbag him with that issue. And, for his troubles, not only did he have to deal with Harper and his petroleum lobby, he also got stabbed in the back by the NDP, which criticized the carbon tax proposal and offered up the same mealy-mouthed solution as the Conservatives - cap and trade. All he had for allies was the Green Party....and that was never going to be enough to turn around a mostly complacent, uneducated public. These sorts of plays and having been a member of four major political parties during my lifetime makes me somewhat cynical about politics...but on with the show! Pick the best of a bad litter I suppose. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Argus Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) A lot of them are predatory leeches who are 'successful' by stomping on others and taking more than they deserve ... No, almost none of them, in fact. That's especially so given your definition of 'rich' seems to be anyone doing better than you, which I'm guessing is pretty near anyone employed. We're not talking about CEOs here, we're talking about dentists Did you not read about the IMF report? I read something that said OPINION, by a CBC writer. What it completely ignored was that the lower unionization rate and the push for lower wages came about as third world countries like China and India began to emerge as manufacturers and heavy exporters, taking away all the manufacturing jobs which used to be the mainstay of unionization. Edited August 4, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 I want you to take a good hard look at venezuela and i mean a real good hard look. Their politicians had a stick it to the rich attitude and look what happened. Their rich people fled to panama and florida, inflation is sky high, crime is sky high, and their economy is in tatters. Yet their neighbour columbia took a pro business attitude and is in a much much better position. This is why people fear socialism. It has PROVEN to be a failure. USSR anyone... Ooooo ... the scary "socialists"! Are you actually falling for that scare tactic?! Or are you one of those pushing that propaganda trying to scare others? The NDP are no more "socialist" than Canadians already are. We ALL like our public health care, education, etc. Capitalism in Canada isn't going away just because the NDP win an election. And union and non union workers all like to have jobs. You will find the NDP very supportive of entrepreneurship, free enterprise, small-medium businesses. We are a mixed economy, and we always will be. . Quote
Argus Posted August 4, 2015 Author Report Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Ooooo ... the scary "socialists"! Having actually, briefly, considered the NDP because Thomas Mulcair can sound fairly sensible, I looked at the NDP party policy book. Anyone who is similarly thinking of voting NDP should do the same. Yes, it is scary. It talks about monetary controls, industry boards, and prohibiting companies from growing larger by engaging in vertical integration. It wants to increase business taxes and double capital gains taxes. Edited August 4, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 No, almost none of them, in fact. That's especially so given your definition of 'rich' seems to be anyone doing better than you, which I'm guessing is pretty near anyone employed. We're not talking about CEOs here, we're talking about dentistsDepends what you're talking about.I read something that said OPINION.You read the conclusions from the report above?Downsizing, wage cutbacks, contract stripping, union busting, outsourcing, off shoring ... accomplished nothing but putting more money into CEO'S pockets! The Harper Conservatives are still pushing 1980's ideas ... that have been proven WRONG. . Quote
The_Squid Posted August 4, 2015 Report Posted August 4, 2015 All good stuff... Having actually, briefly, considered the NDP because Thomas Mulcair can sound fairly sensible, I looked at the NDP party policy book. Anyone who is similarly thinking of voting NDP should do the same. Yes, it is scary. It talks about monetary controls, industry boards, and prohibiting companies from growing larger by engaging in vertical integration. It wants to increase business taxes and double capital gains taxes. Quote
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