Argus Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 So that's what it's down to. This bunch that rode into town on a promise to clean up Ottawa are now just team A as opposed to team B? It's worse than that and you know it. Harper and his cronies have dragged politics to a whole new low in this country. I hear that accusation from the far Left all the time, but it's generally made out of ignorance and ideological blindness. I'm not a fan of Harper and not in favour of the Tories' closed system of information, or their tight leash on their members, but it's hardly unique in our history, and is only a shade worse than what his predecessors have been up to. The degree of central control over individual MPs in he Liberal and NDP camps seems to be comparable, as is the intolerance for anyone who dares disagree with the great leader. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 You could, unless it is in aid of a clear goal in a recognizable framework of policy. Ie, the Tories have long stated they want to help families, and it ought to be a national goal to aid in the raising of children and to encourage families to have children, so the tories could claim that their scheme is in aid of this. By contrast the Liberals sudden desire to milk the better off in order to give the money to the well off is kind of suspicious. As for raising minimum wages. What is the overall objective here? Raising minimum wages by a substantive amount will inevitably move up the line and raise all salaries. I mean, if you have some skill now and earn $15hr, and minimum wage gets raised to $15hr you're going to need to get a big salary bump yourself. Thus all wages rise and thus all prices rise since employers will pass the additional costs along. So who really benefits? You earn more but everything you buy costs more. I can see this harming the economy in terms of foreign imports and exports. I don't see how it helps. So why do it except to get votes? Apparently you havent been following what's actually been going on. Trudeau has said quite clearly he disagrees with giving the UCCB to everyone and would scale it down to zero when family income hits 200k, and he would also get rid of income splitting which also favors the wealthy. So you seem to have that theory entirely back ass wards. As regards a minimum wage bump, that extra money tends to end up back in the local economy which is good for sales and local hiring. Quote
Argus Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Apparently you havent been following what's actually been going on. Trudeau has said quite clearly he disagrees with giving the UCCB to everyone and would scale it down to zero when family income hits 200k, and he would also get rid of income splitting which also favors the wealthy. I'm tired of hearing that claim. Given that lower income people pay no income taxes, and that the higher your income the more tax you pay ALL tax cuts favor the 'wealthy'. As for Trudeau, given that high incomes are already taxed at over 50% and that he wants to increase that even more, what's the big deal about universality? A universal program is cheaper to administer than a means test program anyway. So you seem to have that theory entirely back ass wards. As regards a minimum wage bump, that extra money tends to end up back in the local economy which is good for sales and local hiring. It's not good for sales when prices rise and not good for local hiring when the cost of unskilled labour rises because companies find other systems now become more cost effective. For example, I was once a security guard. As they unionized and increased wages, companies began to hire less of them and put in automated systems instead. It's also not good in terms of exports since it makes ours more expensive. And it increases the likelihood of a job being offshored. Edited July 24, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ReeferMadness Posted July 25, 2015 Report Posted July 25, 2015 I hear that accusation from the far Left all the time, but it's generally made out of ignorance and ideological blindness. I'm not a fan of Harper and not in favour of the Tories' closed system of information, or their tight leash on their members, but it's hardly unique in our history, and is only a shade worse than what his predecessors have been up to. The degree of central control over individual MPs in he Liberal and NDP camps seems to be comparable, as is the intolerance for anyone who dares disagree with the great leader. Huh. You're not a fan of their closed system of information or tight leash on their members. Of what aspects of Conservative practise are you a fan? Their complete disregard for election laws? Their use of public funds for blatantly partisan advertising and promotion? Their muzzling of independent scientific thought? Their politicization of non-partisan institutions including the Governor General, Elections Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada, the Parliamentary Budget Office and the military? Their focus on wedge issue and dog whistle politics? Their obsession with natural resource industries which has set back economic development in this country by decades? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
poochy Posted July 26, 2015 Report Posted July 26, 2015 Their obsession with natural resource industries which has set back economic development in this country by decades? You know this is Canada right? When exactly haven't we been that way? Some of the other response I would have to those things you mention, are, not true, same as every other government , ever. or, it's about time. Have you noticed that for the last 10 years a lot of people haven't been buying the nonsense you are trying to sell? Tell yourself whatever you like about why that has happened, but I just looked out my window, still Canada. Most other people, who weren't convinced of the evil agenda 10 years ago are doing the same, maybe, just maybe, there is still time to see troops in the streets, or finally get all those women back into the kitchen where they belong, fingers crossed. Quote
Argus Posted July 26, 2015 Report Posted July 26, 2015 Huh. You're not a fan of their closed system of information or tight leash on their members. Of what aspects of Conservative practise are you a fan? Reasonably honest, capable government with a focus on cutting costs and lowering taxes. So far both opposition parties seem to be focused on a wide array of expensive new programs which they have no means of paying for, despite their proposed tax increases. I am also a fan of majority government since it brings stability and the ability of government to make tough decisions. I am not a fan of an endless series of expensive minority governments or coalitions, which the changes to electoral law proposed by the NDP and Liberals would ensure. Nor am I a fan of switching the priority of our immigration system from a points based system which tries to get people with skills and education, to a family reunification plan which ignores the lack of same. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
August1991 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Posted July 26, 2015 That's the Joe Oliver theory. What do I do, I don't have any grandkids?Vote NDP or Liberal! You get the benefit now but leave less in your estate. ===== Here's the simple story: a) People can pay less tax now but leave more in their estate/will. People can pay more tax now but leave less in their estate/will. Harper has chosen option . Quote
Argus Posted July 26, 2015 Report Posted July 26, 2015 Vote NDP or Liberal! You get the benefit now but leave less in your estate. ===== Here's the simple story: a) People can pay less tax now but leave more in their estate/will. People can pay more tax now but leave less in their estate/will. Harper has chosen option . That makes absolutely no sense, you know. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WWWTT Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 Huh. You're not a fan of their closed system of information or tight leash on their members. Of what aspects of Conservative practise are you a fan? Their complete disregard for election laws? Their use of public funds for blatantly partisan advertising and promotion? Their muzzling of independent scientific thought? Their politicization of non-partisan institutions including the Governor General, Elections Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada, the Parliamentary Budget Office and the military? Their focus on wedge issue and dog whistle politics? Their obsession with natural resource industries which has set back economic development in this country by decades? Sounds like you are longing for the Canada that never was. liberals do this when criticizing the Harper regime, they create a fantasy fairy tale utopia Canada. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
On Guard for Thee Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 Sounds like you are longing for the Canada that never was. liberals do this when criticizing the Harper regime, they create a fantasy fairy tale utopia Canada. WWWTT You don't have to subscribe to any particular party to be able to see the current CPC transgressions, as have been outlined. Quote
WWWTT Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 You don't have to subscribe to any particular party to be able to see the current CPC transgressions, as have been outlined. Dalton McGuinty and Wynne did/are doing many things that that are on par with conservative policy. The screaming examples are the sell off of Hydro One and the unconstitutional powers given to the police rammed through Queens park just before the now infamous 2010 G20. Not to mention all the back tracking on marihuana laws and corporate tax cuts that were started by Martin not to mention the austerity that he was famous for! Did I mention the Afghan mission? Lots of partisan examples to be found with their appointments as well! I posted an link to an well written article that mentions all of this. Liberals love to paint a rosy picture of the past where all their right wing agendas are somehow conveniently forgotten. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
On Guard for Thee Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 Dalton McGuinty and Wynne did/are doing many things that that are on par with conservative policy. The screaming examples are the sell off of Hydro One and the unconstitutional powers given to the police rammed through Queens park just before the now infamous 2010 G20. Not to mention all the back tracking on marihuana laws and corporate tax cuts that were started by Martin not to mention the austerity that he was famous for! Did I mention the Afghan mission? Lots of partisan examples to be found with their appointments as well! I posted an link to an well written article that mentions all of this. Liberals love to paint a rosy picture of the past where all their right wing agendas are somehow conveniently forgotten. WWWTT You mean that rosy picture when the gov. books actually balanced and sometimes even has surpluses? Quote
WWWTT Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 You mean that rosy picture when the gov. books actually balanced and sometimes even has surpluses? Thanks to health care transfer payment cuts. Something the federal liberals are famous for doing. But the liberals never talk about how they are still responsible for something that they started. Hence the Canada that never was. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
poochy Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 Thanks to health care transfer payment cuts. Something the federal liberals are famous for doing. But the liberals never talk about how they are still responsible for something that they started. Hence the Canada that never was. WWWTT I also heard Chretien was a really nice guy, not at all power hungry or controlling of his cabinet. Harper invented those things. Quote
DFCaper Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 You mean that rosy picture when the gov. books actually balanced and sometimes even has surpluses? With a Government that talked left but ruled from further right than Harper. If Harper cut as deep as Chretien did, the internet would have exploded with how evil Harper is!!! Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
DFCaper Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 Dalton McGuinty and Wynne did/are doing many things that that are on par with conservative policy. The screaming examples are the sell off of Hydro One and the unconstitutional powers given to the police rammed through Queens park just before the now infamous 2010 G20. The way the federal liberals associate with the Ontario Liberals, is why this will be only the second time in my life I will not vote Liberal. Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
waldo Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 The way the federal liberals associate with the Ontario Liberals, is why this will be only the second time in my life I will not vote Liberal. examples? Ya, ya... your previous post to this sure speaks to you voting Liberal in the past! Quote
Ash74 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 I can say I honestly do not like any of them. Each party does not make me want to vote for them because of what the latest stump speech is. I just do not trust Harper less than I do the other two parties. I figure you are living under a rock or just have no clue what is going on in Ontario if you vote Liberal and the NDP I feel that they will pull a Bob Rae or worse. What a lovely choice we all have in this election. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
waldo Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 I can say I honestly do not like any of them. Each party does not make me want to vote for them because of what the latest stump speech is. I just do not trust Harper less than I do the other two parties. I figure you are living under a rock or just have no clue what is going on in Ontario if you vote Liberal and the NDP I feel that they will pull a Bob Rae or worse. What a lovely choice we all have in this election. another direct linking of national and provincial parties? Just how is it you're equating the Ontario Liberal party to the National Liberal party? Quote
Ash74 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Posted July 27, 2015 another direct linking of national and provincial parties? Just how is it you're equating the Ontario Liberal party to the National Liberal party? The full backing of Wynne by the Federal Liberal Leader http://www.truenorthtimes.ca/2014/05/23/justin-trudeau-paul-martin-join-wynne-campaign-trail/ Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
DFCaper Posted July 28, 2015 Report Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) examples? Ya, ya... your previous post to this sure speaks to you voting Liberal in the past! http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/justin-trudeau-kathleen-wynne/ I do not consider right wing as all bad. I voted for Chretien, but for Harper over Martin. I was actually a big Dion fan, and feel now no honest good man can win with his loss. I only voted for Iggy to financially support the Liberals (per-vote sub). I wanted to prevent them from weakening to the point that the NDP become the alternative (Fail). Why are universal programs so bad to the left now? It is all that keeps our universal health care alive. Cut out the rich 1/2 from it, and see how good it is in 5 years.... Programs should be universal, use progressive tax system to level out the playing field. Not sure why the Liberals left his concept. edit to add - I can see your not from Ontario Waldo, but the provincial Liberals in Ontario are terrible in every way. More corrupt than any government, and are more authoritarian than Harper. Justin has allowed himself to be associated with them. May have to vote Green or NDP, while secretly hoping for a Con minority. Edited July 28, 2015 by DFCaper Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
waldo Posted July 28, 2015 Report Posted July 28, 2015 imagine that! Two guys presuming to tie... directly tie and associate Ontario provincial and federal Liberal parties. And here I thought that argument would reflect upon position/policy - go figure. Is the Ontario PC party the same party as the federal CPC party... because Patrick Brown offers support to Stephen Harper? C'mon guys - try again... try harder! Quote
Keepitsimple Posted July 28, 2015 Report Posted July 28, 2015 imagine that! Two guys presuming to tie... directly tie and associate Ontario provincial and federal Liberal parties. And here I thought that argument would reflect upon position/policy - go figure. Is the Ontario PC party the same party as the federal CPC party... because Patrick Brown offers support to Stephen Harper? C'mon guys - try again... try harder! If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck......... Link: https://www.google.ca/search?q=picture+of+wynne+and+trudeau&biw=1237&bih=584&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CBwQsARqFQoTCPz9qreZ_sYCFUMSkgodjioPfw Quote Back to Basics
ReeferMadness Posted July 28, 2015 Report Posted July 28, 2015 Sounds like you are longing for the Canada that never was. liberals do this when criticizing the Harper regime, they create a fantasy fairy tale utopia Canada. WWWTT Sounds like you've finally woken up to the fact that the Harperite bunch are as corrupt as any administration Canada has had, at least on modern history. The bunch that rode into Ottawa preaching accountability and pledging to change things are a raving band of hypocrites. The first step is acceptance so this is progress. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted July 28, 2015 Report Posted July 28, 2015 Reasonably honest, capable government with a focus on cutting costs and lowering taxes. Sorry, to what government are you referring? Can't be the Harperites. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
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