marcus Posted August 13, 2015 Report Posted August 13, 2015 Khamenei asserts that Israel does not have a right to exist as a state. Who cares? Netanyahu's party and pretty much all the parties in his coalition have vowed to never allow a Palestinian State. While you're worried about what some guy may have said about a country that already exists. There are so many double standards when Zionist advocates speak or type about what is acceptable and what is not. - Who can have nuclear weapons? - Who can attack other countries? - Who can give money/weapons to militant groups? - Who can accept/not accept a country? - Who can violate human rights? - Who can kill innocent civilians? Why do Zionists expect to be treated differently than others? Why should they be treated as anything special? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jbg Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Posted August 13, 2015 Who cares? Netanyahu's party and pretty much all the parties in his coalition have vowed to never allow a Palestinian State. While you're worried about what some guy may have said about a country that already exists. There are so many double standards when Zionist advocates speak or type about what is acceptable and what is not. - Who can have nuclear weapons? - Who can attack other countries? - Who can give money/weapons to militant groups? - Who can accept/not accept a country? - Who can violate human rights? - Who can kill innocent civilians? Why do Zionists expect to be treated differently than others? Why should they be treated as anything special? What is the historical difference between Palestinians and other Arabs? None. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
CITIZEN_2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) d Edited October 25, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Posted August 14, 2015 Since Canada is not a party to this "deal", I do not understand what "support" from Canadian citizens means anyway. Such support is largely irrelevant. Canada will continue to manufacture defense products for export to Israel, not Iran. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted August 14, 2015 Report Posted August 14, 2015 You are also blind or illiterate to understand when in post after post I am saying that NO NATION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THEIR GOVERNMENT What does it matter who is 'responsible'? We don't deal with individual citizens but with the state. If the state is violent an brutal and murderous and dangerous then that is what we must respond to and deal with. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 14, 2015 Report Posted August 14, 2015 To counter false statements and preposterous allegations made by very few in this thread regading how horrible Iranian nation The authorities restricted freedoms of expression, association and assembly, arresting, detaining and prosecuting in unfair trials minority and women’s rights activists, journalists, human rights defenders and others who voiced dissent. Torture and other ill-treatment remained prevalent and were committed with impunity. Women and ethnic and religious minorities faced pervasive discrimination in law and practice. Flogging and amputation sentences were reportedly carried out, some in public. Executions continued at a high rate; juvenile offenders were among those executed. Judges continued to impose sentences of execution by stoning, although none were reported to have been carried out. https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hudson Jones Posted August 14, 2015 Report Posted August 14, 2015 What does it matter who is 'responsible'? We don't deal with individual citizens but with the state. If the state is violent an brutal and murderous and dangerous then that is what we must respond to and deal with. I fully agree. This is why the BDS movement, a non-violent movement, is a great response to Israel's brutal, murderous, dangerous and illegal actions against the Palestinians. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
CITIZEN_2015 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) The authorities restricted freedoms of expression, association and assembly, arresting, detaining and prosecuting in unfair trials minority and women’s rights activists, journalists, human rights defenders and others who voiced dissent. Torture and other ill-treatment remained prevalent and were committed with impunity. Women and ethnic and religious minorities faced pervasive discrimination in law and practice. Flogging and amputation sentences were reportedly carried out, some in public. Executions continued at a high rate; juvenile offenders were among those executed. Judges continued to impose sentences of execution by stoning, although none were reported to have been carried out. Argus, unlike the other guy, You to the contrary seem to be rebuffing always with your logic, reasons and statistics that is why I am surprised at your totally irrational response to my post. Is any of what you have mentioned in your post indicative or evidence or a horrible Iranian nation!!!!???? which based on what you say is the victim in your post, because this was what I was objecting to Rue's post (crystal clear in my post which YOU have quoted) which is unlike you always always irrational and in an attack mood with viscous accusations against anyone who with evidence and logic tries to support the deal. Please read the two scenarios I discussed in one of my previous posts and respond to that. No one dared to respond to the two very likely scenarios I described in that post as 1 - what would happen if there is an Iran-G6 nuclear deal and 2 - What would happen if the deal falls apart. Edited August 14, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Argus Posted August 15, 2015 Report Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Is any of what you have mentioned in your post indicative or evidence or a horrible Iranian nation!!!!???? And to repeat what I responded earlier to that theme, it really doesn't matter if there's lot of nice, progressive people in Iran, for we have to deal with the government which rules over them, and its excesses. Please read the two scenarios I discussed in one of my previous posts and respond to that. No one dared to respond to the two very likely scenarios I described in that post as 1 - what would happen if there is an Iran-G6 nuclear deal and 2 - What would happen if the deal falls apart. If the deal falls apart I imagine Iran will continue to openly work on obtaining nuclear weapons. If the deal goes through I imagine they will instead work secretly at obtaining nuclear weapons while using the fresh infusion of tens of billions of dollars to help sponsor terrorism, to obtain more nuclear parts and equipment, and to make life better in Iran so more Iranians support the regime. I do not believe the regime will honor its word to 'infidels'. In fact, their religious texts are replete with examples of why that is not necessary, and I'm certain they will accept those interpretations. Edited August 15, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
CITIZEN_2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Report Posted August 15, 2015 And to repeat what I responded earlier to that theme, it really doesn't matter if there's lot of nice, progressive people in Iran, for we have to deal with the government which rules over them, and its excesses. If the deal falls apart I imagine Iran will continue to openly work on obtaining nuclear weapons. If the deal goes through I imagine they will instead work secretly at obtaining nuclear weapons while using the fresh infusion of tens of billions of dollars to help sponsor terrorism, to obtain more nuclear parts and equipment, and to make life better in Iran so more Iranians support the regime. I do not believe the regime will honor its word to 'infidels'. In fact, their religious texts are replete with examples of why that is not necessary, and I'm certain they will accept those interpretations. Obviously I don't agree with your scenarios.. Again this is what would happen: Scenario 1 - The deal goes through: What I anticipate is that this deal will bring peace instead of war. Not a single shot will be fired between Iran and anyone over the next 10 years. More moderate governments will come to power in Iran. Europe (now) and US and Canada (in 5 to 10 years) will have relations and embassies and trades. Both sides win and Israel will be in no danger. Scenario 2 - The deal is rejected: Without this deal war will break out. US (lobbied by strong Zionist groups) will attack Iran likely with some Israeli help. Iran will retaliate against both by military and other means. Worst of all Canada may be dragged into the war (like they did in Afghanistan) and very sadly Canadians may die too. Many thousands of civilians on Iran and Israel side will die more so on Iran's side. Iran's hardliners will push out the moderates and will take over. Attacks on Israel borders will increase tenfold. Iran will also seriously pursue nuclear weapons and will race to build A bombs after an attack by any possible means and will become a nuclear power in a short time after such attack. What would happen afterwards I hate to speculate or worse write about. Quote
Rue Posted August 15, 2015 Report Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Civilian your response to me stating nations are not responsible for their governments shows in a nut shell the absurdity of your efforts to script write for Iran. 1. Over 120,000 Iranian students died because they felt responsible for and to their government for the crimes it continues to commit against its people as you sit writing your scripts on behalf of this fascist regime that escalates its murder rate against its citizens who disagree with it daily; 2. Oh how convenient, no one is responsible for their governments, they can just sit there on their collective asses while their government wipes out their fellow citizens, tortures them, funds terrorists world wide, funds brutality and illegal civil wars world wide. 3. Spew that doctrine to Hudson Jones, Marcus, Big Guy, the other anti Israelis who come on this board and in their posts hold all Jews who live in Israel, all Jews who live outside Israel and they think support the existence of a Jewish state, responsible for anything and everything that goes down in the ME. What a crock. Go on read Marcus' response to me. Since he believes the US and Israel are evil, everyone else should be too. Brilliant reasoning. Not though as brilliant as yours though. Tell me. How is it in one breath you claim Iran is a wonderful peace loving nation, now state its citizens are not responsible for this wonderful regime? Why would they not take responsibility and pride in their government hmmm? Say how convenient that is. Iran is one large collective political orgasm when its convenient, on the other hand is suddenly is not responsible for its government when you can't defend its human rights record or policies. Israelis are of course,but not Iranians. Iran finances terrorists who kill Jews world wide. They don't ask these Jews, hey Jew are you a Zionist, get real. They kill them simply beause they are Jews. Who is responsible for a nation if not its citizens? Citizes bravely overthrow and challenge tyrannical regimes. What world do you live in where citizens who watch their nations commit crimes and say nothing are not responsible unless its a Jew, then suddenly we are collectively responsible for anything wrong in the world? Americans, Canadians speak out every day question and challenger their government and so do Israelis. We call it political opposition and activism. Iran crushed and wiped out its opposition and as I write this Iranians are being tortured and killed because they do feel responsible for the fate of their nation and what its government is doing. No you don't conveniently wash yourself of culpability for the tyrannical state you come on this board to mouthpiece-you roll in its mud or in fact blood and extoll its wonderful smell. Edited August 15, 2015 by Rue Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted August 15, 2015 Report Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) I have reported your post above Rue. You throw insults and outrageous accusations at anyone who disagrees with you. You do not have the capability or capacity to debate in a civil manner and so far you have falsely accused me of so many evil things just because I post comments related to the thread topic that counters your extremist unconditional pro-Israel Zionist comments. WE ARE NOT BLOODY DEBATING THE DAMN ARAB ISRAEL CONFLICT OR THE NATURE OF IRANIAN REGIME (which btw I have not made a single comment for or against it but you accuse me of being its mouthpiece!!!!) BUT WHETHER THIS NUCLEAR DEAL BETWEEN IRAN AND G6 IS GOOD FOR THE WORLD PEACE TO BE ACCEPTED OR NOT. In my report I indicated that I will stop posting in this forum until the moderators warn you of your aggressive insulting responses in what is supposed to be a civilized debate. Maybe you learn from your friend Argus how to debate with logic and statistics rather than insults, personal attacks and accusations. See the pictures of all the mouthpieces of the regime rallying in 100 cities across the world in support of the deal. http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/08/15/edmonton-rally-held-to-support-iran-nuke-deal http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/08/16/iran-deal-80-supporters-at-photo-shoot-in-san-diego/ Even the opposition in exile: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jahandad-memarian/former-iranian-mps-in-exi_b_7992382.html You Idiot. Edited August 16, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Argus Posted August 16, 2015 Report Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Obviously I don't agree with your scenarios.. Again this is what would happen: I believe your scenario is fantasy based largely on wishful thinking. Nothing I have seen of the Iranian regime causes me to suspect any moderating influence. Even after agreeing to the deal they have continued to curse the US and Israel and their leader has written a book bragging about his deception. I think they will continue to export and finance terrorism, and continue to work on their nuclear weapons program. Edited August 16, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted August 16, 2015 Report Posted August 16, 2015 No you don't conveniently wash yourself of culpability for the tyrannical state you come on this board to mouthpiece-you roll in its mud or in fact blood and extoll its wonderful smell. Says the guy who tries excuse the well-documented actions of the criminals who carpet bomb those who they occupy and kill thousands of civilians. Not to forget the decades long occupation and illegal activities by the criminal state, Israel. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Hudson Jones Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Any time the good guys beat the bad guys, there is a cause for celebration. Underestimation of nationalism in the United States is politically risky for a foreign leader who tries to interfere with the United States governance by challenging the US president and administration overtly, publicly and undiplomatically. How AIPAC lost the Iran deal fight Many say AIPAC's efforts were doomed to fail in the aftermath of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's combative speech to Congress in March. WASHINGTONPOST.COM Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Rue Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Funny Hudson Jones not too long ago you were on this board claiming AIPAC and Jews control the congress. Now you contradict and prove what you said is wrong of course but hey who notices right? Why will you discuss AIPAC but not IAPAC the Iran lobby group headed by among others Hassan Nemazee who targeted and donated cash to Senators to vote for the deal? I seem to remember you stating AIPAC pays off Senators. Hey now isn't it funny you won't discuss Hassan Nemazee of IAPAC and how when he is not contributing to Senators o vote for Iran was the national campaign fundraiser for Hilary Clinton, John Kerry and Joe Biden. Hey now lobby groups. Interesting how you are so absolutely selective in who you will talk of. Never any Iranian lobby group just AIPAC. As I preciously argued and you denied. AIPAC is no magic lobby. Its success comes when it is able to coincide its interests with those of the military industrial complex. Otherwise it is not the magic mind control myth you claimed it was based on the anti semitic canard that Jews control the world. This vote actually does a great job of showing just how wrong you and anti Israelis are with your Jews control Washington myth but hey why admit that right Hudson Jones? Suddenly this is a good guy v. bad guy contest. I agree with some political analysts (mostly not Jewish) who said Netanyahu risked alienating Jewish support in Congress by coming to congress to give the speech he did. I agree with them. I think he should have given that speech in Israel in the Knesset not in Washington. I think he in fact alienated Jewish Americans precisely because as I stated, they are not sheep who knee jerk vote for Israel and are loyal to the US-in fact everything Jones claimed they were not in past posts. That is not the issue though. This vote was not aout any Jews or the Jewish vote. It was about Obama working with the Iran lobby and other lobbies to get the votes he needed. Its not the first time Congress has not voted on something Israel agrees on and will not be the last. The b.s. stereotype on this board that Jews control the US is proven false by the very one who advanced it and the point is, the religion or ethnicity of the voters is not relevant, their opinions are. The majority at this time support the deal. That is democracy. Its what makes the US great. Interesting as well the same Hudson Jones who will not hesitate to criticize the US has no problem chirping about its support when it suits his agenda. Edited September 5, 2015 by Rue Quote
kactus Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) AIPAC is a powerful jewish lobby and if you are incapable of understanding that then you are either ignorant fool (unlikely) or patriot jew who discriminately supports Israel's foreign policy above US and Canada's interests (Likely). Thankfully under Obama administration AIPAC has not been as vocal vis a vis foreign policies as they want to be. That's why there's not much love for Obama. Edited September 8, 2015 by kactus Quote
marcus Posted September 8, 2015 Report Posted September 8, 2015 Screw AIPAC, Bibi, Sheldon, all the war mongering Zionists and all of the extremists in Iran who have been pushing for the Iran Deal to collapse. Obama Gains Enough Senate Support to Thwart Iran Deal Vote Three more Democratic senators back the deal, potentially giving the president 41 votes necessary to kill congressional resolution against the nuclear agreement. read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.675167 Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Posted September 8, 2015 AIPAC is an American political lobby and it is not just for Jews. More importantly, AIPAC has more relevance in this matter than Canadians watching and hoping how things will go with the U.S. treaty process. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted September 8, 2015 Report Posted September 8, 2015 AIPAC is an American political lobby and it is not just for Jews. You're right. It's not for Jews. It's for Zionists and their fans. Glory, Hallelujah! Warmongers lose--AIPAC, U.S. Neocons, hard core Israeli Zionists and their Prime Minister Netanyahu, Saudi royal family, morally bankrupt Iranian expat opposition who did their best to break this deal, and their kindred souls among the ruling regime in Iran --they all lose --peace activists in Iran and the U.S. win--yet another disastrous war adding to the misery of the region is at least for now averted --in no small measure due to the heroic efforts of our Codepink sisters: Women for peace! Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Posted September 8, 2015 You're right. It's not for Jews. It's for Zionists and their fans. Glory, Hallelujah! Warmongers lose--AIPAC, U.S. Neocons, hard core Israeli Zionists and their Prime Minister Netanyahu, Saudi royal family, morally bankrupt Iranian expat opposition who did their best to break this deal, and their kindred souls among the ruling regime in Iran --they all lose --peace activists in Iran and the U.S. win--yet another disastrous war adding to the misery of the region is at least for now averted --in no small measure due to the heroic efforts of our Codepink sisters: Women for peace! Lots of groups in that post....no mention of Canada or Canadians. There's a reason for that. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted September 8, 2015 Report Posted September 8, 2015 Speaking of Cheney and wars in the Middle East - He was right! Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Excuse of fake Weapons of mass destruction dragged the US (and idiotic Bush administration) into war with Iraq which virtually ruined that country and led to formation of ISIS and many more terrorists and Israel tried the same to lobby US into attacking Iran and sit to the side and enjoy the benefit from the destruction of another potential military rival in the region at the expense of US billions and lives but this time failed miserably as Obama was smarter than that and put the interest of US before Israel for a change, Indeed Hallelujah. Edited September 9, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
marcus Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Looks like Israel's Atomic Energy Commission caved to Iran as well: Israel’s Nuclear Advisory Panel Endorses Iran Deal Countering Netanyahu, government and most of opposition, nation's Atomic Energy Commission maintains pact will prevent Tehran from developing nuclear bomb, source says. Edited October 26, 2015 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
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