Greece? Add about 4% to Harper's Numbers

Argus · July 13, 2015

Taking responsibility for their own gov'ts record is a problem for Conservatives I take it.

After piling countless billions of additional borrowed money on the accumulated national debt, it becomes a bit galling to hear Conservatives counsel against borrowing funds - at neat zero interest cost - to repair badly needed infrastructure and, most off all, to supply stimulus to counter a current recession of Conservative's own making.

So first you complain about billions of additional borrowed money, then complain that the tories won't borrow billions of additional dollars given how low interest rates are. :rolleyes:

Vancouver King · July 13, 2015

So first you complain about billions of additional borrowed money, then complain that the tories won't borrow billions of additional dollars given how low interest rates are.

Days ago Harper referred to our latest recession as a "downturn".

So tell me, what is it about downturns you find attractive?

Argus · July 13, 2015

Days ago Harper referred to our latest recession as a "downturn".

So tell me, what is it about downturns you find attractive?

Are you blaming Harper for the price of oil being cut in half?

Vancouver King · July 13, 2015

That's intellectually bankrupt given the world economy was booming when they took over, and the international financial crisis was none of their doing. It\s even worse given your party leaders were basically screaming and crying and threatening to overthrow the government if billions weren't spent on a big economic stimulus program.

200,000 manufacturing jobs lost since forming gov't, an economic plan anchored in fossil fuel extraction now lies in ruins, a current federal budget that has slipped into deficit and after racking up $151 billion in additional debt since 2006, it now counsels it's opponents to avoid deficits.

Argus · July 13, 2015

200,000 manufacturing jobs lost since forming gov't, an economic plan anchored in fossil fuel extraction now lies in ruins, a current federal budget that has slipped into deficit and after racking up $151 billion in additional debt since 2006, it now counsels it's opponents to avoid deficits.

Not his fault that Ontario has been so badly mismanaged by the Liberals over the past ten years. And why are you complaining about deficits when you're calling on the government to borrow more money?

Vancouver King · July 13, 2015

Not his fault that Ontario has been so badly mismanaged by the Liberals over the past ten years. And why are you complaining about deficits when you're calling on the government to borrow more money?

It's never Harper's fault is it? It's the Ontario gov'ts fault, the opposition made us do it, the world economy was responsible, the devil made us do it....

Will you ever run out of excuses?

WWWTT · July 14, 2015

Will you ever run out of excuses?

Not when the tax payers are funding the staff members to come up with new ones.

WWWTT

Argus · July 14, 2015

It's never Harper's fault is it? It's the Ontario gov'ts fault, the opposition made us do it, the world economy was responsible, the devil made us do it....

Will you ever run out of excuses?

You mean will I ever choose to ignore reality like you do?

Hey, where's those millions in tax dollars the NDP stole? Can we expect that back soon or can we throw Mulcair in prison for grand theft?

Edited July 14, 2015 by Argus

Vancouver King · July 14, 2015

I never did get your reaction to Dean Del Mastro in leg irons and handcuffs scuffling into a police van on his way to jail for election fraud. You remember him, Harper's hand picked parliamentary secretary and.... wait for it.....Conservative ethics spokesman. Well, this jailbird and a dozen or so more Tory felons are starring in a new NDP political on-line ad.

They all share this single distinction - all are Harper appointees which speaks loads about the Prime Minister's judgement.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Vancouver King

Argus · July 14, 2015

I never did get your reaction to Dean Del Mastro in leg irons and handcuffs scuffling into a police van on his way to jail for election fraud. You remember him, Harper's hand picked parliamentary secretary and.... wait for it.....Conservative ethics spokesman. Well, this jailbird and a dozen or so more Tory felons are starring in a new NDP political on-line ad.

They all share this single distinction - all are Harper appointees which speaks loads about the Prime Minister's judgement.

Typical dishonesty from the left. In point of fact, this government has been by far the most honest in my lifetime. These petty little issues with a few individuals are nothing compared to the massive government wide corruption, fraud and theft which took place in the Chretien, Mulroney and Trudeau governments.

Del Mastro was convicted of spending his own money. Shouldn't that mean the NDP leaders who spent MY money without my consent, illegally, should be in prison now?

Edited July 14, 2015 by Argus

Vancouver King · July 14, 2015

Typical dishonesty from the left. In point of fact, this government has been by far the most honest in my lifetime. These petty little issues with a few individuals are nothing compared to the massive government wide corruption, fraud and theft which took place in the Chretien, Mulroney and Trudeau governments.

Conservatives have been convicted of election fraud related charges for 3 consecutive elections - there's a clear pattern of abuse over a decade.

dre · July 14, 2015

Argus, and others, you are discussing possible scenarios. Your discussion, like images from Greece, raise the possibility that they may not receive their pension.

This discussion alone means a few older otherwise social liberal, gay, urban, Harper-hater people/women will secretly vote Conservative in October.

For such people, the PC police have made it impossible to tell the truth - except in a secret ballot.

The problem with your whole premise is that its completely unfounded.

Greece got into trouble for three main reasons...

1. They borrowed too much money and didnt collect enough revenue.

2. They were hit harder than most other countries by the legalized banking fraud that caused the 2007 global recession..

3. They tied their small agrarian economy to a currency regime and interest rates designed for a manufacturing powerhouse (Germany).

Theres no indicator in any of these scenarios that a conservative government would fare any better than an NDP or Liberal government in terms of delivering pensions. If anything a reasonable person is going to more worried about their pension under a conservative government. Its plausible at least that a convervative government might change the age of eligibility, or reduce benefits, or privatize part of the program. Im not saying the conservatives WILL do this, but its at least plausible unlike the scenario that you are alluding to.

WIP · July 16, 2015

The problem with your whole premise is that its completely unfounded.

Greece got into trouble for three main reasons...

1. They borrowed too much money and didnt collect enough revenue.

2. They were hit harder than most other countries by the legalized banking fraud that caused the 2007 global recession..

3. They tied their small agrarian economy to a currency regime and interest rates designed for a manufacturing powerhouse (Germany).

Theres no indicator in any of these scenarios that a conservative government would fare any better than an NDP or Liberal government in terms of delivering pensions. If anything a reasonable person is going to more worried about their pension under a conservative government. Its plausible at least that a convervative government might change the age of eligibility, or reduce benefits, or privatize part of the program. Im not saying the conservatives WILL do this, but its at least plausible unlike the scenario that you are alluding to.

Let's cut to the chase here, because I see the Greek Crisis continuing to spread around the world.

I already pointed out that US and Euro-based international institutions like IMF, World Bank, ECB etc., readily jump in to bail out the original creditors (thereby removing the moral hazard for those handing out loans to clients who cannot pay), and gladly take on the role of debt collectors...demanding hard assets and control of government economic policy when they assume the role of creditor-of-last-resort. As I mentioned previously from the example of John Pilger...the "economic hitman", the tactic of willfully writing up loans and loading national governments with unpayable debtloads is a strategy that began at least as far back as 50 years ago, when nations of Africa...newly freed from European colonization, mostly found themselves re-colonized by US and Euro finance capital under the watchful eyes of the World Bank and IMF. All that's new here is that disaster capitalism has clearly arrived on European shores, and Europe will extend the process of austerity budgets and seizure of real wealth to one European nation after another....maybe Germany will be the last one standing! But, this is a process created and continued by a system that demands growth in profits at all costs. If no growth can be obtained through actually increasing economic output, then growth is obtained by devouring existing wealth!

It should be pointed out that in the Greek example, there was no moral hazard for the frontline bankers, bailed out by the ECB and the IMF. Just as most of the mortgage lenders in the US were bailed out as the Government assumed the risks of "too big to fail" banks and quantitatively eased their way to push the day of reckoning off a few more years into the future.

So, my takeaway is that the entire global banking and monetary system is a fraud from the outset! The reason why banks are the wealthiest, most profitable institutions in the first place, is because even when loans default, they get to claim hard assets in place of the virtual assets they offered as credit to begin with.

Remember, under a fractional reserve banking system, 97% of that money loaned out, didn't exist until the deal was finalized. The only thing that has kept this capitalist ponzi scheme solvent to begin with, is that ever since fiat currencies and fractional reserve banking was allowed, the rapid creation of new money/debt has fueled enough economic growth to allow the virtual capital to be absorbed and the debts to be paid.

So, now that we are in a brave new world, where capital cannot create much actual wealth any longer, capitalism is cannabalizing itself! A quick example can be seen in this graph provided by a report originally from the Brookings Institution showing that share values of companies under liquidation is greater than the value of those new entrepreneurial startups we hear so much about:

This shouldn't be surprising since finance capital has grown in size and profitability as manufacturing and real production have declined. Many large corporations find it more profitable to buy back stock to boost share values than to actually invest anything in increasing production - http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/07/when-capitalism-turns-to-cannibalism.html

Back to the geopolitics of the Greek example...now that Greece is used up and soon to be an economically spent force, what happens when the US/Euro oligarchy decides that the only source of profit left is to seize the wealth of lesser oligarchies of the BRICS nations? Most notably nuclear-armed Russia and China? This system of profit-at-all-cost is so insane, I'm willing to bet that it will overpower spineless narcissistic political leaders like Barack Obama or whoever his successor is, and push all the buttons to start WWIII.....game over!

August1991 · July 21, 2015

The problem with your whole premise is that its completely unfounded.

Greece got into trouble for three main reasons...
....

Your three main reasons, or any explanation, entirely miss my main two points:

1. Many older Canadians, whether born abroad or not, dependent on the State, see what is happening in Greece. Harper, like him or not, has a reputation for doing what he says he will do.

2. In French and English Canada, many voters before October will be afraid to say in public that they are voting for Harper.

TimG · July 21, 2015

This shouldn't be surprising since finance capital has grown in size and profitability as manufacturing and real production have declined. Many large corporations find it more profitable to buy back stock to boost share values than to actually invest anything in increasing production

The decline of small businesses in the US is directly connected to the endless increases in regulations that are disproportionately higher for small busineses: http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/federal-regulations-cost-small-businesses-more-than-large-ones.html

Complying with environmental regulations was the biggest wallop to small business's wallet: It costs 364 percent more for small firms than large ones, or about 4 times more per employee. Small companies spend $4,101 per employee, compared to $1,294 at medium-sized companies (20 to 499 employees) and $883 at the largest companies. The cost of tax compliance is 206 percent higher for small firms.

Reversing this trend requires an end to the endless stream of petty regulations.

Increasing regulations gives large incumbents a huge competitive advantage since they have the staff to manage them and, in many cases, the lobbyists necessary to tailor the regulations to hinder competition. The fight between Uber and location Taxi companies is the best illustration of how excessive regulation harms consumers by limiting choice.

Edited July 21, 2015 by TimG

Smallc · July 21, 2015

Did you ever drive down a highway and see a bunch of small abandoned gas stations? I'm understanding why this week. These regulations are going to come close to bankrupting me. A small amount of mandatory work (to be followed by more) is costing me over $40K. I already spent $10K last year on the same issues. There's nothing wrong with my equipment, but, the rules have changed. Regulation is a killer to small business for sure.

WIP · July 21, 2015

The decline of small businesses in the US is directly connected to the endless increases in regulations that are disproportionately higher for small busineses: http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/federal-regulations-cost-small-businesses-more-than-large-ones.html

The standard argument for making it impossible to regulate food additives, fracking fluids, shipping oil by rail etc..

TimG · July 21, 2015

The standard argument for making it impossible to regulate food additives, fracking fluids, shipping oil by rail etc..

Those kinds of regulations don't hit small businesses. It is various local zoning, energy efficiency, "diversity" regulations that hurt and if you want to see more small businesses it has to start with a significant reduction in the petty micromanaging of the nanny state. If you are happy with a society dominated by large corporations that can afford the compliance costs then keep supporting endlessly increasing regulations. Edited July 21, 2015 by TimG

nerve · July 22, 2015

MG, I made it up.

But 2 voters in 100 seems a reasonable guess. And if 2 voters in 100 switch sides, the CPC will get 4% more votes.

And why would 2 voters in 100 choose to vote for Harper? Le Confort et....

Does this have something to do with the new voting rules and Jerrymandering?

nerve · July 22, 2015

The Greek situation is unique to the lesser efficient countries of the EU.

Canada has a central bank and currency regulation control, the two arn't anything alike.

Now dumping Canadian pensions into Chinese or US or both currencies may be more sound for retirement planning if there is a lack of faith in the ability of all levels of Canadian government to manage itself. Are there any safe harbours left in the world today?

The value of pensions may reduce, that is the real threat as cost of living goes up, benefits may dry up but pensions should be relatively secure as the dollar.

Canada has tons of resource, there is really no threat to public pensions for as long as most boomers will live, and for non boomers it is a redundant issue as people will be working health for the rest of their lives more or less so retirement will be less common as unemployment and reserve workforce positions become the norm. Pensions are only an issue for old farts who are going to get squeezed regardless of who is in, if they arn't rich, and if they arn't it won't be nothing new for them. Never depend on government for your lively hood, it works the other way around.

Edited July 22, 2015 by nerve

WIP · July 22, 2015

Those kinds of regulations don't hit small businesses. It is various local zoning, energy efficiency, "diversity" regulations that hurt and if you want to see more small businesses it has to start with a significant reduction in the petty micromanaging of the nanny state. If you are happy with a society dominated by large corporations that can afford the compliance costs then keep supporting endlessly increasing regulations.

I'm for zoning laws because I wouldn't want an oil refinery built next door because my city has no zoning bylaw policies.....like Houston!

When did improving energy efficiency become a bad thing? There is still a lot more that can be done to reduce energy consumption. And when the only motivator for efficiency is high energy prices, that means....well that means we get what we've ended up with right now after burning through half of the planet's stored petroleum reserves and 90% of the cheap oil and gas.

If by 'diversity' you mean the requirements major home builders used to have to build public housing units, I still see that as a positive, because it's one of the key factors why we don't have the volatile racial situation that exists in most American cities. It doesn't fix everything, but when people of different origins and backgrounds have to live together and send their kids to the same schools, the conflicts are much lower.

August1991 · July 23, 2015

Did you ever drive down a highway and see a bunch of small abandoned gas stations? I'm understanding why this week. These regulations are going to come close to bankrupting me. A small amount of mandatory work (to be followed by more) is costing me over $40K. I already spent $10K last year on the same issues. There's nothing wrong with my equipment, but, the rules have changed. Regulation is a killer to small business for sure.

And no one needs typewriters, or horses, any more. Heck, even Barack Obama talked about bank tellers and ATMs.

Fewer gas stations?

1. Cars with better mileage. 2. Cars that require less maintenance.

So fewer gas stations? Is that a bad thing?

Edited July 23, 2015 by August1991

Argus · July 24, 2015

And no one needs typewriters, or horses, any more. Heck, even Barack Obama talked about bank tellers and ATMs.

Fewer gas stations?

1. Cars with better mileage. 2. Cars that require less maintenance.

So fewer gas stations? Is that a bad thing?

Ayep, I think his point just kinda zipped right over your head there.

Smallc · July 24, 2015

Yeah...it's also worth noting that the owner of the company doing the work informed me that when these new environmental rules came out in 2010, the number of registered sites in the province dropped by 25%. There's a larger town with over 650 people near me that will go from having 2 gas stations to having none because they can't afford the work that needs to be done.

TimG · July 24, 2015

I'm for zoning laws because I wouldn't want an oil refinery built next door because my city has no zoning bylaw policies.....like Houston!

Again, the pettiness does not come from the big ticket items but the regulations that mean filling in a hole caused by tree falling over "took 16 months, $4,000 and countless office hours to get a permit" http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2013/03/another-california-coastal-commission-horror-story.html

When did improving energy efficiency become a bad thing?

Whenever the cost of improving efficiency exceeds the value of the energy saved.

If by 'diversity' you mean...

I mean the bureaucratic excesses such as "OFCCP compliance" which costs small businesses huge sums.

Petty labour laws prevent workers from choosing to work more than 8 hours a day or to work through lunch breaks are also a huge cost for small businesses that benefit no one other than lawyers. Each of these petty rules has a small impact but collectively they add up to a huge burden.

You can act like every other lefty and convince yourself that the "greater good" is more important than encouraging the creation of businesses but you would be in denial if you think these policies don't hurt small businesses or that the continual increase in these kinds of regulations is not connected to the drop in small business creation.

Edited July 24, 2015 by TimG