Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Harper knows refugee acceptance is down 30%; w That's a completely meaningless number without context. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 The fact is the number of refugees we accept is down 30%. We went from 5th to 15th under Harper's leadership. That's the truth. How do you know the refugees we have been refusing are genuine refugees as opposed to liars trying to jump the queue? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Joe Clark, whether you like him or not, just went ahead and got things done with regard to the "boat people" and none of the woes all you tin hatter's like to bring up over immigration, didn't materialize. The boat people weren't Muslims. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 The boat people weren't Muslims. I was wondering when the bigotry issue would rear it's ugly head once more. Quote
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 oh my! Yet another guy who reaches for the "we're so far away" card! They just need bigger/better boats, right? Clearly, that list showing Canada (under Harper Conservatives) dropping 10 country positions has certainly drawn out the apologists around here! but here's another list... fits in quite timely with Harper's blustering about Canada's per-capita immigration rate. Wait, what's that... Harper was being asked about refugees and he pulled out a reference to immigration - say it ain't so! But I digress... per the UNHDR, (refugees, resettlement and asylum), Canada ranks 41st in the world per-capita: Isn't it against the rules to post the same stuff in multiple topics? Why should I have to point out your lack of context repeatedly? As I have already pointed out in the other topic, your list, if one reads it, shows Canada ahead of the US, the UK, France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and most other western countries. Who is at the top of the list? Third world countries near the world's trouble spots and a couple of the Nordic countries presently in the process of converting from Christian democracies to Muslim theocracies.. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I was wondering when the bigotry issue would rear it's ugly head once more. You emotionally overwrought liberals might not want to notice there is the slightest difference between people from different societies, cultures, nations and lands, but those with even a bare minimal of intelligence and judgement sure do. Edited September 6, 2015 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Army Guy Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Ok so you support the mission against ISIS. Great...but why? I suspect, that since ISIS is a cruel and brutal regime you support it on humanitarian grounds. Right? That makes sense to me; but what doesn't add up is how so many conservatives will support war on humanitarian grounds, but then defend limiting aid to refugees that have been displaced by war and evil regimes. It is not just about a military mission, That is my point, just like it is not all about saving a few people from drowning in some boat.....the entire mess must be looked at.....we all have been sitting on our hands.....the UN, NATO, US and Russia, the rest of the World Governments, and their citizens..... What i would support is forcing everyone involved to sit down and discuss solutions....while that is taking place aid to those agencies that are running camps in the surrounding countries.....along with aid, helpful assistance be it teachers, hospitals, etc.....and security of some sort, be it military or civil police..... Bringing all those depts necessary to these camps....to assist with accessing claims, processing them, and choosing the people we want to take in....not from europe but from those countries who have camps in them......so refugees journeys are not so dangerous, and filled with smugglers who profit from refugees misery......so we can start bringing in refugees , ones that have been properly vetted....and while they are in safe camps... Have NATO contain ISIL on one side and Russia on the other....until diplomatic solutions can be resolved...and if it takes redrawing borders on some map so be it.... Im sure there are millions of things i'm missing , well above my pay grade, but this needs to be looked at by all levels, by multi governments, with the outcome being that ISIL stops its expansion and terror, Assad stops his terror, it s not about regime change its about working this mess out so millions can move on and start rebuilding..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 You emotionally overwrought liberals might not want to notice there is the slightest difference between people from different societies, cultures, nations and lands, but those with even a bare minimal of intelligence and judgement sure do. You've certainly demonstrated that well. Quote
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) You've certainly demonstrated that well. I'm an intelligent person. Understanding that Muslim immigrants from Syria are going to behave quite differently from Vietnamese Asians doesn't really require a huge amount of intelligence, of course, but it requires some. And you still can't answer any questions without deflection and dodging. Why so frightened of honesty? Edited September 6, 2015 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 I'm an intelligent person. Understanding that Muslim immigrants from Syria are going to behave quite differently from Vietnamese Asians doesn't really require a huge amount of intelligence, of course, but it requires some. And you still can't answer any questions without deflection and dodging. Why so frightened of honesty? What was your question? Quote
Army Guy Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) What was your question? Squirrel......... Edited September 6, 2015 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 What was your question? What's wrong with the immigration system? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) What's wrong with the immigration system? They have failed to meet their own immigration #'s, drastically increased waiting times, and have obviously been dragging their knuckles with regard to the current situation. What is most telling is the way Chris Alexander keeps getting caught conflating numbers to try and pull a rabbit out of a hat. Meanwhile Harper keeps ranting away about the need for us to whip out our F 18's while ignoring recent reports that we are blowing up civilians. And as a sidebar to the bombing issue, what do you think the ratio is to people in Syria killed by ISIS as compared to killed by Assad? How's that for a start? Edited September 6, 2015 by On Guard for Thee Quote
cybercoma Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 How do you know the refugees we have been refusing are genuine refugees as opposed to liars trying to jump the queue?Come on. Quote
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 They have failed to meet their own immigration #'s, drastically increased waiting times, You have a cite for this? To my knowledge there are no hard numbers for immigration. The government sets a scale of between X and Y, with Y being the maximum they will take. For example, in 2013 they set a goal of bringing in between 240,00 and 260,000. They admitted 258, 953. In 2014 they let in 260,404. So you have something else? and have obviously been dragging their knuckles with regard to the current situation. No one was talking about the current situation till this weekend. Hard to say they dragged their knuckles on it. I think the logjam is that the policy says you have to be UN designated refugee, and the UN isn't designating these people as refugees. That will be given a work around soon, I'm sure. But that's not part of the immigration system anyway. You yourself have been quick to point out that the immigration and refugee systems are different, so I'm interested in knowing what you believe is wrong with the immigration system that you say Harper has failed there . And as a sidebar to the bombing issue, what do you think the ratio is to people in Syria killed by ISIS as compared to killed by Assad? Assad has killed a lot more. Why? Haven't you been making the point we should let dictators like Saddam and Al-Assad alone to do whatever it is they want, and stop interfering? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Come on. If you read the media I'm sure you've seen stories from time to time about phony refugees, about sudden big influxes of applications from certain relatively safe countries which necessitated the government requiring visas from those countries. And I've certainly read stories about immigration lawyers writing out boilerplate stories for 'refugee's to give to immigration review boards. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
cybercoma Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I'm not foolish enough to believe that the snapshot provided by "the media" is representative of the actual situation on the ground. They pick and choose the stories they want to tell, so it's hardly a good metric to understand what's generally going on. The don't write stories about the thousands of boring applications that go exactly as they should. Edited September 6, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I am concerned about bringing too many refugees from third world. Mostly lacking skills to contribute positively and have to join social programs, some could have criminal backgrounds (like Cuban refugees went on murder robbery rape spree in the US) and even some with diseases. They must be properly processed no matter how long it takes. Also concerned about the future race relations in this country. Bringing so many at once (both immigrants and especially refugees) they cannot properly absorbed and integrate. One refugee commits a crime which will get public coverage then the stereotype would start singing (as we have witness on this board they are everywhere) that all immigrants from certain parts (depending which part the criminal is from) are criminals, rapists, .....Race relations in Canada is good right now compare to Europe and most new comers join the society and integrate and contribute but start taking many at once and stop proper filtering then that could change soon and we may witness race riots like in the US and attacks and hatred for immigrants like Europe. Some if get a good number may also wish to change our way of living as our way is different with theirs and that concerns me too. Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 They're entirely different classes legally and semantically. The refugees will become immigrants. So it would be smart to be selective. Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 Most refugees are liars. That's your "educated" position? Really? From what I've read very few are people fleeing persecution. Most are simply fleeing poverty and instability. Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 So you support a war against ISIS on humanitarian grounds, but not housing refugees displaced by war? Odd. Harper is correct in that housing a few tens of thousands of refugees will do nothing to help the millions and tens of millions in danger. It will make some of you liberals feel better about yourself, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking there is any other accomplishment in bringing them here. If you want to help the millions and tens of millions you need to do something to end the war. Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 I was wondering when the bigotry issue would rear it's ugly head once more. I think it's only common sense that Christians will be a better fit here, since whatever female hatred their society has will fade quickly in the Canadian context. This is clearly not the case with Muslims. Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 I'm not foolish enough to believe that the snapshot provided by "the media" is representative of the actual situation on the ground. They pick and choose the stories they want to tell, so it's hardly a good metric to understand what's generally going on. The don't write stories about the thousands of boring applications that go exactly as they should. That is quite true, but one which is easy to forget. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) That is correct. I am with Harper on this (one of very few things I am with him). The underlying problem of war and poverty must be addressed. ISIS's brutally is largely responsible for recent refugees so a coordinated afford to get rid of them once and for all. Considering there are 50 million refugees in the world, taking even 25000 which the liberal and NDP are promising is not going to address even the tip of problem and we should not bring more for the reasons I stated earlier. Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Civis Romanus sum Posted September 7, 2015 Report Posted September 7, 2015 I am concerned about bringing too many refugees from third world. Mostly lacking skills to contribute positively and have to join social programs,some could have criminal backgrounds I am not by any means suggesting that a large group of the migrants are criminals, but I think it only sensible that there will be criminals among them. I mean to say, if I was a Syrian criminal and knew the pickings were far better and the punishments far less in Europe, I would want to go there. I would join the throngs marching to Turkey and through there to Greece. So yes, there will most certainly be a lot of criminals among the millions of refugees headed to Europe. Also concerned about the future race relations in this country. Bringing so many at once (both immigrants and especially refugees) they cannot properly absorbed and integrate. It is good to be generous, but we should be generous with our own people first. There are waiting lists for public housing in every city, for example, long ones. Where are these ten or twenty or thirty thousand immigrants the Liberals and New Democrats want to bring over immediately going to live? They are clearly going to push aside all the Canadians waiting for public housing, because of the urgency of arrival with no shelter. Sweden has generously offered to take in all Syrians who show up. Well, according to the paper today there are half a million people right now waiting for housing in Stockholm alone. There is a severe shortage of rental accommodations. The average wait is 9 years. How would you feel if you were Swedish and had been waiting for years and suddenly your government generously offers places to tens of thousands of foreigners coming in? I do not worry much about race. I worry about religion, and the gender hatred which seems to be common among Muslims from that area I have three daughters, and they have already experienced it. I have seen it myself. Google Sweden and rape, or google the UK and its Muslim gangs who rape and abuse young girls. There seems to be a religious edict in Islam that it's okay to rape women who are not Muslim. That is the basis of ISIS raping young girls and trading in sex slaves. There are also riots among Muslims in Sweden, in France and in the UK. Quote
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