NAACP spokesperson pretends to be black.

[On Guard for Thee]

Bingo!

Not surprised you fell for that one.

[WestCoastRunner]

This is an issue that I have really struggled with. On the one hand, she grew up with adopted siblings of the ethnicity that she now identifies with. She witnessed to some extent the discrimination they faced. She felt more comfortable living in the 'skin' of 'african americans' given her upbringing. I can see that she had great empathy for the issues they felt, hence the direction her career took. Good for her. And if we leave it at that, it doesn't seem to be a problem for me.

However, I understand that she brought forth accusations of hate mail etc that has been not proven and the police in Seattle have even cast doubt on those accusations. This is a very interesting case of human behaviour that I think needs further empathy and analysis. I am not prepared to cast judgement.

Edited June 16, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

[On Guard for Thee]

This is an issue that I have really struggled with. On the one hand, she grew up with adopted siblings of the ethnicity that she now identifies with. She witnessed to some extent the discrimination they faced. She felt more comfortable living in the 'skin' of 'african americans' given her upbringing. I can see that she had great empathy for the issues they felt, hence the direction her career took. Good for her. And if we leave it at that, it doesn't seem to be a problem for me.

However, I understand that she brought forth accusations of hate mail etc that has been not proven and the police in Seattle have even cast doubt on those accusations. This is a very interesting case of human behaviour that I think needs further empathy and analysis. I am not prepared to cast judgement.

Its a truly interesting case. Based on what I have read I understand her empathy with the black community based on her upbringing. I wonder how it would have worked if she just approached the subject by saying, my DNA may say that, but me heart says this.

[Bonam]

I wonder how it would have worked if she just approached the subject by saying, my DNA may say that, but me heart says this.

DNA says what? Which gene sequence determines one's "race"?

[On Guard for Thee]

DNA says what? Which gene sequence determines one's "race"?

No sequence. Point being you could be born with white skin and still feel more at home with people who were born with black skin, Could just depend on the makeup of your neighborhood.

Edited June 16, 2015 by On Guard for Thee

[Bonam]

No sequence. Point being you could be born with white skin and still feel more at home with people who were born with black skin, Could just depend on the makeup of your neighborhood.

What exact shades of skin qualify you as "white" vs "black"?

[On Guard for Thee]

What exact shades of skin qualify you as "white" vs "black"?

I dont know. You tell me.

[Bonam]

You're the one that keeps talking about "DNA" and "white skin", so I'm just trying to understand what you mean by these things and their relation to "race". After all, it's just a social construct.

[Black Dog]

-edit-

Edited June 16, 2015 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Why is that even an issue then? If a man can claim to be a women because they think they are a woman then why can't white person claim to be black? Why is it ok for people to mock a white person claiming to be black but it is not ok to mock a man claiming to be a woman?

People feel their sex/gender a lot more deeply than they do race. There's also the fact (which you continue to ignore as it throws off your whole "trannies are crazy" schtick) that there's likely a genetic basis for transgenderism. There's no such basis for racial identities.

[Black Dog]

False. Transgender is an arbitrary social construct because our society has different roles for men and women. A society where men and women had exactly the same roles, wore the same clothing and were otherwise identical would not have any transgender because the concept would make no sense. Same with race where gradual mixing of races renders such distinctions irrelevant.

So you don't believe in sexual dimorphism. Interesting.

[TimG]

So you don't believe in sexual dimorphism. Interesting.

The physical differences in sexes obviously exist but transgenderism only exists because society makes a big deal out these differences. In a society where men and women wore the same clothes and otherwise did nothing to call attention to the different sexes then transgenderism would make no sense. This makes it a social construct rather than a biological/genetic question. Edited June 16, 2015 by TimG

[Black Dog]

The physical differences in sexes obviously exist but transgenderism only exists because society makes a big deal out these differences. In a society where men and women wore the same clothes and otherwise did nothing to call attention to the different sexes then transgenderism would make no sense. This makes it a social construct rather than a biological/genetic question.

A society where men and women wore the same clothes and otherwise did nothing to call attention to the different sexes would still have transgender people, but they might not be able to articulate the issue. In any case, such a society does not and cannot (again, due in part to innate gender differences) exist, so evoking this hypothetical gender utopia to defend your transphobia is a useless exercise. It's also off topic.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Black Dog

[TimG]

A society where men and women wore the same clothes and otherwise did nothing to call attention to the different sexes would still have transgender people, but they might not be able to articulate the issue.

IOW - the issue would not exist.

evoking this hypothetical gender utopia to defend your transphobia is a useless exercise. It's also off topic.

Add claiming that my opinions on the nature of transgender are 'transphobia' is a pathetic ad-hom that simply shows you cannot actually refute my point.

It is also on topic because people are trying to rationalize why one cannot claim to be whatever race they want but can claim to be whatever gender they want.

Edited June 16, 2015 by TimG

[Black Dog]

IOW - the issue would not exist.

Trans people would.

It is on topic because people are trying to rationalize why one cannot claim to be whatever race they want but can claim to be whatever gender they want.

Because race and gender aren't the same things. Seems pretty straightforward to anyone not playing the false equivalency game.

[cybercoma]

But if someone believes they're a tea kettle that's the exact same thing as being a transgendered person, right!?

[Shady]

But if someone believes they're a tea kettle that's the exact same thing as being a transgendered person, right!?

It's the same as being transracial.

[TimG]

Because race and gender aren't the same things.

A statement of the obvious. Green and red are different colors but they are still colors and can be discussed on that basis. If you want to argue that that the obvious hypocrisy makes sense you have to do more than toss around tautologies (they are not equivalent because they are different...).

[GostHacked]

This woman may live among blacks and identify with them, but she is as white as they come. I don't mind her supporting the black community, but to portray herself as black when in fact she is white, makes me question her integrity and her motives. Good thing she stepped down, but to carry on being black for so many years would be a complete insult to those she wants to help.

Don't be anyone but yourself.

[Shady]

If somebody can be transgendered, then there's no reason somebody can't be transracial. You made the bed lefties, now you gotta lay in it.

[GostHacked]

If somebody can be transgendered, then there's no reason somebody can't be transracial. You made the bed lefties, now you gotta lay in it.

Here we go with the idiotic left-right crap.

[Black Dog]

A statement of the obvious. Green and red are different colors but they are still colors and can be discussed on that basis. If you want to argue that that the obvious hypocrisy makes sense you have to do more than toss around tautologies (they are not equivalent because they are different...).

Instead of fatuous analogies, why not explain what gender and race specifically have in common that makes you think they are merely removed by shades?

[TimG]

Instead of fatuous analogies, why not explain what gender and race specifically have in common that makes you think they are merely removed by shades?

I already did: gender, like race, is an arbitrary social construct and there is no basis for treating them differently. You seem to want to pretend that race (which is often derived from genetic traits) is a social construct but gender is not. Edited June 16, 2015 by TimG

[Argus]

So I guess Jacee is out of a job now... ?

[Black Dog]

I already did: gender, like race, is an arbitrary social construct and there is no basis for treating them differently.

So why are you so bothered by trans people? If there's no basis for the social construct of gender, people should be able to assume whatever identity theyu desire, yet you would classify that as a mental illness.