Arafat

[caesar]

BD, one doesn't have to be an expert on the finer points of the Oslo accord to realize that Arafat's "death" is amateurish, pathetic, disorganized and thoroughly incompetent. For heaven's sakes, his wife (who lives in Paris) is now claiming that she has some kind of authority.

Gee I didn't know one could organize ones death. Hpow does one die professionally organized and competently. Let's get real. The press should have kept out of all the speculation and nonsense. He does have a young child listening to all the guessing and speculation. What is your problem with the wife claiming she has authority..... authority for what????? Controlling information about her husband and father of her child and whether or not life support should be disconnected?????? She may be a greedy shallow self centered person but let's not get carried away.

[August1991]

Gee I didn't know one could organize ones death. Hpow does one die professionally organized and competently.

For most people, you go to a notary and prepare a will. Simple, obvious. Unless you're Abou Ammar, or Caesar.

[Hugo]

Not to split hairs, August, but Arafat's regime isn't exactly enlightened or democratic. People in Palestine who disagree with him have a funny habit of disappearing. An awful lot of Palestinians were killed by Arafat's gang in the first intifadah.

That being said, when there's the question of succession in an autocratic and non-hereditary regime after a leader's death, there is usually a power struggle and the last wishes of the leader are rarely taken into account.

Lenin specifically instructed that his successor should absolutely not be Stalin. Stalin did not leave any instructions (being so paranoid by the time of his death that, in his own words, he didn't even trust himself) but Kruschev was probably the last man he'd have picked. Hitler picked Goering as his second-in-command, but upon his death Doenitz ended up taking over, albeit very briefly. Mao Zedong had ejected Deng Xiaoping from his inner circle, and the Gang of Four (who hated Deng) were the dominant players when he died, so Deng's succession to the Chinese leadership was quite incredible.

Based upon what we know of Arafat, it's likely that he named no successor for two reasons: firstly, he probably trusted nobody enough with the job, and secondly, he knew that his wishes were not particularly likely to be obeyed anyway. Yes, he is a cult figure, and so you might think the people would object if his wishes were not obeyed, however, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao were also revered cult figures when they died (Hitler's status was, for obvious reasons, irrelevant) and the public had no objections when their proteges did not succeed them.

[maplesyrup]

Arafat Forced His People's Plight Into the World Spotlight

Even in his death there are tensions surrounding his burial location. Someone needs to kick Israel's ass!

[caesar]

For most people, you go to a notary and prepare a will. Simple, obvious. Unless you're Abou Ammar, or Caesar.

Do you really think he is "most people" Even the money hidden all around was done as a necessity to keep Israel from seizing it. We do not know if there is a will. This would probably be entrusted to someone that would not give it to the media or to Israel. How you jump to conclusions with all the misinformation out in the media simply guessing because they are not in "the loop" We may never know. I don't think it is incumbent on the Palestinians or his wife and daughter to inform you. If we do get informed it will only be because his organization and wife will battle it out in public.

[caesar]

The tensions are not there, Maple leaf. The Palestinians are quite satisfied with the arrangements they are making. Perhaps Arafat would not be satisfied but it is all political propaganda nonsense. Israel has tried to make some arrangements to ward off serious problems. I think all these arrangements did need to be done and negotiated but I think it should have been done without the media. Whatever he was to anyone else; he has a young daughter that will be facing a sad loss and should not have to hear all this squabbling and funeral arrangements discussed before the man is even dead. The "wife" can hold her own but the daughter is just a child.

[maplesyrup]

The guy is dead and he can't do any more harm to anyone. Why can't he be buried where he wanted to be buried?

[August1991]

Caesar, don't make yourself look more like a fool. Maple Syrup has at least some sense.

The guy is dead and he can't do any more harm to anyone. Why can't he be buried where he wanted to be buried?

I met Arafat once. He looked like a man who hadn't had a decent night's sleep for several years. The RCMP told me his bodyguards were incompetent.

I suspect he wanted the best for his people, but he was basically disorganized. At least Yeltsin knew when to say goodbye.

[maplesyrup]

I think it is time for the Israeli people to give Sharon the boot so we can have a fresh start in the Middle East.

/294

[caesar]

Caesar, don't make yourself look more like a fool. Maple Syrup has at least some sense.

You are the one who is not making ANY sense at all.

Give your own head a shake; get some sleep; wake up in the morning and make sense. I am not the one criticizing a man's lack of an organized death????? Do you not speak English or what is your problem????

[I miss Reagan]

YASSER ARAFAT died at age 75, lying in bed surrounded by familiar faces. He left this world peacefully, unlike the thousands of victims he sent to early graves.

In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. In a better world, the French president would not have paid a visit to the bedside of such a monster. In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, "God bless his soul."

God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! Bless the soul of the man who brought modern terrorism to the world? Who sent his agents to slaughter athletes at the Olympics, blow airliners out of the sky, bomb schools and pizzerias, machine-gun passengers in airline terminals? Who lied, cheated, and stole without compunction? Who inculcated the vilest culture of Jew-hatred since the Third Reich? Human beings might stoop to bless a creature so evil -- as indeed Arafat was blessed, with money, deference, even a Nobel Prize -- but God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.

The Monster

[maplesyrup]

Yasser Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize!

[maplesyrup]

Why can't Arafat be buried in Jerusaleum now where he wanted?

It would be a good jesture on behalf of Israel, and would show that the Israeli are sincere about working towards peace in the Middle East.

[maplesyrup]

Blair's tribute to Arafat breaks ranks with Bush

What I would like to know is why PM Martin wimping out by not attending Arafat's funeral? Is he kowtowing to Bush over this? If he is, it is a big mistake. :angry:

[Chloe]

if Blair is disagreeing with Bush with his opinion of Arafat then its just an excuse to break away from Bush in time for his own country's election.

Its all about looking good to the people. But I feel for Blair, he's been in quite the perdicament these past few years.

[caesar]

Its all about looking good to the people. But I feel for Blair, he's been in quite the perdicament these past few years.

Why would you sympathize with a leader that sent his countries soldiers into an invasion that was not necessary or wise; nor was it approved by the people. He made his bed now he should face the music. Democracy should be year round not one day every four years. Politicians must listen to the wishes of the people,

[Chloe]

As much as people like to blame Bush and Blair for everything wrong in this world I would like to hear one concrete and concise alternative to what they did. I mean everyone said they should not have gone to Iraq to remove Sadam. But what would you have done about Sadam if you were president, and don't give the old we should have talk to him bit. What would you have done after 9/11 if you were president. What would be the exact plan.

[The Terrible Sweal]

As much as people like to blame Bush and Blair for everything wrong in this world I would like to hear one concrete and concise alternative to what they did. I mean everyone said they should not have gone to Iraq to remove Sadam. But what would you have done about Sadam if you were president, and don't give the old we should have talk to him bit. What would you have done after 9/11 if you were president. What would be the exact plan.

I supported the removal of the Taliban regime in response to the 9/11 attacks. There was a clear link.

Beyond that, the proper response to 9/11 would have been improved security/intelligence efforts (WITHIN the bounds of constitutionality and international law). It is a serious mistake to undermine constitutionality and law because those are the best tool for meeting and beating the criminal violence of terrorism. It is also exactly the wrong tactic to (as Bush did) play into the politicization of terrorist objectives. The moment a state declares 'war' on 'terror' it elevates the terrorists to the very status they seek.

As for Iraq, since it had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11, and had no weapons of mass destruction, and was completey subjected due to the no-fly restrictions, attacking it was not at all necessary from the perspective of international safety. The johhny-come-lately justification that Saddam was a very bad man is a poor fig-leaf, given the satisfaction with which the Bush regime is willing to tolerate and carry on business with other very bad men holding their people under tyranical rule.

[Cartman]

But what would you have done about Sadam if you were president, and don't give the old we should have talk to him bit.

What his father did. Isolate Iraq and allow the weapon's inspectors to complete their job. Are you saying that George W. Bush is a hero and George H.W. Bush did the wrong thing?

[caesar]

As much as people like to blame Bush and Blair for everything wrong in this world I would like to hear one concrete and concise alternative to what they did. I mean everyone said they should not have gone to Iraq to remove Sadam. But what would you have done about Sadam if you were president, and don't give the old we should have talk to him bit. What would you have done after 9/11 if you were president. What would be the exact plan.

Since Iraq and Saddam were not responsible for the attack on the WTC ; that was Osama and al qaeda; they should have finished that job and not gone off on a tangent for oil. Iraq/ Saddam WERE cooperating with the weapons inspectors and did destroy some borderline illegal weapons. The "evidence" that Bush/ Blair claimed to have; proved to be forged and/ or fraudulent or lacking substance PRIOR to the invasion.

Since Iraq did NOT pose a threat to any other nation; nor had it attacked any other nation; Thr coalition attack was an illegal attack. It was and is NOT a war. None was declared and lest we forget Bush did announce an end to the hostilities or some such nonsense.

Saddam was a "friend" of the USA prior to the first Gulf War. The USA vetoed an UN security council resolution against Saddam/Iraq for using poison gases against Iraq.

The USA War College, also, claimed that the Kurds that were poisoned; were accidently poisoned when Iraq and Iran were trying to poison each other and that the symptoms the Kurds experienced indicated they were vicitims of Iran attacks not Iraq. Now they claim that Saddam purposely poisoned his own Kurdish countrymen (genocide) referring to the same incident>??????

[maplesyrup]

Why was there no autopsy performed on Arafat especially when one of his doctors suspected that he may have been poisoned?

'I think Arafat was poisoned'

A leading Jordanian neurologist who regularly examined Yasser Arafat said on Friday that poisoning was the "highest" probable cause of the Palestinian leader's mysterious death and urged that an autopsy be performed.

"One of the causes of platelet deficiency is poison," said Dr Ashraf al-Kurdi, who examined a gravely ill Arafat in his besieged compound in the West Bank town of Rammallah two weeks ago.

Maybe even more importantly, why is this issue not being pursued in the media, eh!

[Black Dog]

The Monster

So western pundits look disapprovingly down their noses at the admiration for Arafat among the Palestinian people.

"But what of his victims?" they sniff, convientently excising the memories of our opwn symbols of liberty: a rogue's gallery of slavers and terrorists.

Yes, Arafat, like so many of his counterparts in the Israeli government, was a terrorist. He was also a potent national symbol, a role I expect he will play far more effectively in death.

[CdnRepublican]

As usual you post no facts, only your own immorality to make nary a point. If you hate western values so much, why don't you move to Palestine, Iran or NK ?

Provide proof that any independent organisation or investigation has found any of Israel's past or present leaders to be war criminals.

If you can't provide proof - cork it.

Compare their record to the homoerotic and sadistically immoral Arafat. A man who looted public funds and destroyed thousands of Palestinians. This is a leader ? If this is the best the Arabs and Palestinians can do then they deserve their misery. I doubt that Arafat and his criminal gang did ONE thing to improve the plight of 'their people'. The Non-Palestinian Arafat did a very nice job of opportunistically stealing funds and destroying any peace process - for his benefit only.

Yasir Arafat has left this world. He was the billionaire godfather of modern terrorism, pioneer of school hostage-takings, multiple plane hijackings and suicide bombings. He never stopped calling for jihad, he stole $900 million in public funds between 1995-2002, and he was a failure to his people. After decades of “never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity,” he did so one last time by leaving the 2000 Camp David talks. Some claimed that Israel never really made an offer; others insisted it was a most generous deal. But the terms of the deal were never made public, and so it remained subject to debate. Until now. With the publication of his book Missing Peace, Ambassador Dennis Ross put in print the terms of the Camp David deal, which Clinton personally read to both sides. Guess what? It was exactly what Barak and Clinton said it was: 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, shared sovereignty over Jerusalem, dismantlement of all settlements save three blocs contiguous to Israel, limited right of return and a $30 billion compensation package.

The Oslo era is over. Israel has resolved to act unilaterally, a wise and overdue decision. This is now Israel’s policy: exit the Gaza Strip, build a fence and kill the terrorists. Israel has every right to hunt those who murder its citizens as surely as we hunt bin Laden and al-Zarqawi. Terrorists have no right to trial or due process nor protection from the Geneva Conventions. Israel owes the Palestinians nothing except the right to live in their own independent state

www.victorhanson.com

The above is well said and true.

Arafat - a hero ? Only to those who hate everything that freedom, morality and common sense can value and offer.

[Guest eureka]

Surely you jest. Virtually every Israeli leafer since the founding of the state has been a terrorist - only the kind of idiot who could write that vituperative nonsense you quoted could think otherwise.

Sharon is, by his own admission, a terrorist. Or have you not heard of the village in Lebanon and his admission. His brutal tactics over the past few years are "state" terrorism.

[Black Dog]

As usual you post no facts, only your own immorality to make nary a point. If you hate western values so much, why don't you move to Palestine, Iran or NK ?

We've been through this before. The actions of Isreal vis a vis the Occupied Territories are wholly inconsistent with western values.

Provide proof that any independent organisation or investigation has found any of Israel's past or present leaders to be war criminals

I didn't say war criminals. I said terrorism. Israel was founded on terrorism. Many prominent Israelis were involved in terrorist organizations which took part in anti-British and Arab operations prior to the establishment of Israel (begin led the Irgun which biombed the King David Hotel, Sharon was a member of the Haganah).

Compare their record to the homoerotic and sadistically immoral Arafat. A man who looted public funds and destroyed thousands of Palestinians. This is a leader ? If this is the best the Arabs and Palestinians can do then they deserve their misery. I doubt that Arafat and his criminal gang did ONE thing to improve the plight of 'their people'. The Non-Palestinian Arafat did a very nice job of opportunistically stealing funds and destroying any peace process - for his benefit only

I already compared Araft to such "moral" leaders as Sharon. Both have the blood of countless innocents on their hands and will, if such a place exists, co-habitate in Hell.