Who will speak for a united Canada/

[maplesyrup]

Article

I remember Raymond Heard from a long time ago when I lived in Quebec, and he used to write a column in the Montreal Star. He was one of, if not my favourite, columnist!

Heard raises a very important issue, that Canadians had better start paying attention to, as PM Martin doesn't have the kahones to stand up for Canada.

[Slavik44]

Article

I remember Raymond Heard from a long time ago when I lived in Quebec, and he used to write a column in the Montreal Star. He was one of, if not my favourite, columnist!

Heard raises an very important issue, that Canadians had better start paying attention to, as PM Martin doesn't have the kahones to stand up for Canada.

I think you have a point, Martin doesn't but i don't think anyone will responsibley stand up for Canada as far as i can tell.

[kimmy]

That article is another smack in the face for those on this board that were ranting about Harper's Belgium musings while ignoring Martin's "asymmetrical federalism."

-kimmy

[Guest eureka]

That article by Heard is an important one. It also seems to signal a change of heart by the Toronto Star. The Star, until now, has never printed this kind of criticism or the criticisms in Quebec that Heard allowed as Managing Editor of the Montreal Star. I hope this is the start of the defense of Canada.

In that role, Heard's charge was the only major newspaper in Canada in which it was freelt possible to write the truth about Quebec and the fragmentation of Canada. The demise of that paper was a serious blow to Canadian unity and to civil rights in Quebec.

[Big Blue Machine]

No one will, there, compromise.

[JWayne625]

I don't believe that any initiative that gives special status to Quebec is helpful in a struggle to keep Canada as "One Country." Special deals for this Province or that Province will only serve to further weaken an already weak federation. There is no guarantee that even if we keep giving and giving to Quebec that they will ever stop whining, and that they won't take it and leave anyway.

What we need is a central government that treats all Provinces exactly alike, otherwise at some point you will have no central government and no country.

I always thought Atlantic Canada would be much better off as part of the New England States, at least we would have at least equal representation at the federal level with other States. As it stands now, we really have nothing in common with Quebec or Ontario, and since Ottawa acts as if Canada consists of only those two Provinces we largely have no say in what happens.

If we are truly a country that wants to treat all of our citizens alike then we first have to have equal representation from each Province and territory like they have south of the border. If that were the case in Canada we would not have basically two Provinces calling all of the shots.

[Big Blue Machine]

We could call all provinces distinct, so that way we could have a strong central gov't. My way in using reverse pyshcology in reverse.

[stamps]

Ralph Klein should run for PM, he is a nationalist like the vast majority of Albertans and I think would have the entire country's well being in mind instead of this regionalized crap we have to put up with when dealing with our current Federal government and its politicians...

[ticker]

Ralph talks without thinking first. He handed the liberals a bone by aiding the conspiracy of hidden agenda and in cahoots with Harper to privatize healthcare.

The liberals would find him an easy target for scare tactics and conspiracy theories in federal politics.

[ticker]

That is unless Ralfie runs for the liberals... where his roots are.

Just like Quebec has separatist and Charest changed parties to be Quebec premier; Alberta has separatist & Ralfie can put on his liberal coat and run for the fed liberals.

[Cartman]

Just like Quebec has separatist and Charest changed parties to be Quebec premier; Alberta has separatist & Ralfie can put on his liberal coat and run for the fed liberals.

Now that would be a kick in the head. Better yet, he should really shock everyone and run for the NDP!

I think Ralph is just gettin too old for this stuff. He wants to retire. He will never enter federal politics.

[Guest eureka]

I think that if Ralph ever got into a real political ring, he would just "run" for cover.

[ndpnic]

No existing Political group is going to stand up for the Canadian populace, or "peon" sector.

It's time for Canadians to accept this, and create a new politcal structure in our country. I propose the "Canadian Naturalist Party", combine the best of Socialist, Communist, and Democratic policies, with Environmental peservation(u know, so there is still a viable planet to live on!), and mix it all up for something uniquely Canadian!

http://www.geocities.com/ndpnic/projectnicadia]"Project Nicadia"...Social, Communal, and Green!"

Canadian "Democracy" has erroded into "Elected Dictatorship"!

[seabee]

Nicadia is unlikely to do much about "Canadian Unity" with a unilingual english site; this is usually interpreted by francophones and Québécois as a rejection, that they are not wanted.

[maplesyrup]

seabee.....good point.

If Vancity, Canada's number one employer by-the-way, can host 1/2 a dozen languages on their banking terminals, the least Canada's political parties could do is to put a few languages up on their websites to represent our cultural diversity.

[ndpnic]

Sorry people! Didn't mean to offend anyone. It's not a real political party anyway. Just the dream of a handful of peons.

Also, I'm not a Federalist. I believe Canada is too vast and diverse, with a shrinking populace. I think in the future we'll all be independant.

"Project Nicadia" is just one example of alternatives to today's failing social structure.

"Survival of the Fittest" does not apply on an individual basis - it refers to the survival of the fittest as a whole!

[JWayne625]

this is usually interpreted by francophones and Québécois as a rejection, that they are not wanted.

For the most part they would be right, they are not wanted with their anti-English rhetoric, and Bill 101. This is not language protection it is discrimination pure and simple, and we do not have a federal government with enough balls to take action against this blatent disregard for the right's of English speaking Canadians living inside Quebec. On the other hand, they spend untold $millions on the promotion of the French language outside Quebec. One would think they are attempting to convince Canadian's that we are a French speaking nation, when the truth is that most Canadian's speak English, and those that don't, most speak a language other than French.

We have a federal Language Policeman travelling across the country reporting back to government every time French speaking people can't find someone to speak to them in French, while he seems to ignore the plight of English speaking people inside Quebec and their inability to receive adequate service in the language of their choice. Upon going to the Quebec Government website I discovered that there is no provision to provide an English interpretation of anything on their sites. While the rest of the Provinces are expectged to provide French on their individual websites. In fact New Brunswick, being one of the poorest Provinces in Canada wastes untold amounts of taxpayer's dollars segregating our population based on the language spoken. We have even created our own "Office of the Official Language Commissioner" and the whole bureaucracy to go along with it. We are cutting back on healthcare by closing whole hospitals and beds, and closing schools and laying off teachers, while increasing classroom sizes. All fees and fines (taxes) have increased due to revenue shortfalls, but we somehow have found the necessary funds to create a whole new bureaucracy in this Language Commissioner's Office. Amazing how politician's think that this is rational thinking!

[White Rabbit]

I must say that JWayne625 is not alone. His/her remarks, which may seem blunt to some are the result of years of frustration with our federal government's pre-occupation with promoting discriminatory language legislation, passing them off as being good for us, have us pay for it, but then deny the majority access to high level and now mid level government jobs.

Bill 101 is on recored as being declared openly in contravention of international laws on this subject by the United Nations. The UN for gosh sakes, says Canada, ney the Quebec Bill 101, is wrong, but the federal gov't says precious little about it AND declares that we must persue this Quixotic Trudeauian dream of full bilingualism.

The OLA of 1969 at its core intent is really fine: to offer services in either language where numbers allow. Perfect, BUT we do not have that today. As we speak, our Liberal dominated Senate (again the Senate reform issue applies here) is hearing argument on Bill S-3 the 'Act to Amend the OLA of Canada'. Well what does that mean to us 'peons' as ndpnic puts it?

It means that this Bill, if approved, and it will be because of the Lieberal majority in the Senate will grant enhanced enforcement to language legislation. That's right, all that stuff about being fair, equal etc. turns out to be even further down the road to discrimination of the majority ... only in Canada. Where else in the world would a well-meaning, decently-intended majority get rammed by the minority and then pay for the privilege. Frankly Ontario is the most to blame sending near 100% MPs to Ottawa. Thank the Big Guy for Stephen Harper who had the skill to cobble a merger btween the CA and PCs. He gave up a lot under very strenuous circumstances.

Before anybody snaps a bolt here, I am not a racist, just really ticked at the years of abuse and noboday at the top wanting to say squat about it. Chretien lined his pockets for years on this stuff. I sent my children to French Immersion where they did well and today reap the rewards.

I put them in there for these reasons: educationally, any extra language is great as it promotes understanding of the dynamics of one's own language (in Canada, French was the most appropo); the 'extra care' element by parents seemed to provide a safer social environment in the school (it did); I did not want to close an employment door to them in the future (I saw what the future would bring), I was right.

The reference to employment was very prophetic in that 1982 decision. Today, the city of Ottawa is struggling with the possibility, if Mr. McGuinty has his way, of being 'officially bilingual'. So yet again the vast majority, and I mean vast, who speak English first will now be at a distinct disadvantage in government service due to agenda demanded by the few Francophone zealots and their blind Anglo head-in-the-clouds idealist suuporters.

Mr. Trudeau, a competent man at many levels, did not forsee the damage that the OLA would do to Canada. Instead of finding a reason to bind, it found a reason to divide ... and several of you readers out there decry Stephen as an extremist. Heck, he's the only sane voice out there right now. Martin, had his chance, but has performed rather poorly. Maybe he's just not as crooked as Chretien, who knows.

I can't remember if it was this site or elsewhere, but I made reference to the estimated cost of bilingualism at 600-700 billion. Our current national debt is around 500 billion. CPC MP Scott Reid former language critic estimated the cost at 37 billion for the fed gov't. The remaining cost is derived from a multitude of avenues: the private sector transitions cost (collective bargaining rules etc), duplication of effort, provincial and municipal jurisdictions, extra salaries stipends for those qualified to translate even if there is no need.

A small aside here if you would allow me. My work place (Ministry of Correctional Services, Ontario) circulated a memo last year asking for volunteers to translate when required. We need translators for a growing number of languages: Asian types, Hungarian, Spanish, Portugese, but sadly no French. Two officers were hired, now several years ago, with criteria as French capable. They have yet to use it.

Again, this is not a French-hating diatribe, or an anti Quebec rant, for I honour both these jurisdictions, but please when the feds dole out the equalization payments and give PQ and extra $ 4 billion, have the courtesy to say thanks instead of crying for more and then telling your impressionable youth Quebec is tired of sending their tax money to Ottawa.

As far as Mr. Layton goes: a gifted media guy, great speaker, strapped to an ultra ideologued NDP that cannot think beyond 2-3 years, manic energy, near lunatic, to be careful with his meds.

Okay, done now.

White Rabbit.

[maplesyrup]

So the shoe is now on the other foot. Boo! Hoo!

For years francophones had to learn English to get a job in Quebec. Now the situation is reversed. Tough! Where were you when the abuses were going on in Quebec a long time ago, that only basically changed when the bombs started going off? If you want to blame somebody for the linguistic problems in Canada today, blame the Protestant School Board of Greater Montreal, who didn't even ensure that its graduates spoke the langauge of the majority in Quebec.

And btw, Ottawa with its unilingualism is a national embarassment and disgrace. No wonder Quebec wants to separate. Good on McGuinty to smell the roses!

Time to turn off your Fox News and to stop reading the National Post - both of them part of the evil media empire.

[Guest eureka]

That is rubbish, MS. Francophones in Quebec had to speak English to get jobs in companies that were English speaking and founded by English speakers.

The PSBGM graduated a greater proportion of bilingual students than the French Catholic Board. That has always been the case as it is a fact that Anglophone Quebeckers have always been - from the earliest days, more bilingual than Francophones.

Ottawa should be an officially bilinguak area, I would agree. However, it should be so as part of the National Capital Region. In other words, not until Bill 101 is nullified.

White Rabbit is correct about the United Nations and Quebec's language laws. Unfortunately, Canada claims that it can do nothing about it since it is, supposedly, a Provincial jurisdiction - a cop-out. The Courts have supported that interpretation for purely political reasons in the name of "preserving social peace."

Thus, we have the situation of the United Nations condemneng Canada for the "race laws" but saying it cannot intervene until all domestic remedies have been exhausted. At the same time, the Canadian government andcourts say that they can do nothing since it is a provincial jurisdiction.

Both positions are wrong and cowardly. And, the exodus of English speakers from Quebec continues.

Incidentally, the basic error in all this, as illustrated in your thinking, is to label the English of Quebec as a minority. It is not that: it is a part of the Canadian majority that resides in Quebec. That is how the United Nations saw it also.

[maplesyrup]

Of course the PSBGM was at fault. Why compare them to the pathetic Catholic School Board. They are both at fault. To suggest that they graduated a high number of bilingual graduates is nonsense. The PSBGM was so out of touch with Quebec society they imported French teachers from France. It was patheric, almost bordering on racism.

I remember a restaurant chain called Murrays. They only changed their menus to bilingual ones after the bombes went off.

The English community in Quebec, with their head in the sand approach have helped to create the linguistic divisions that are now apparent in Canada.

Just learn French and stop whining. The majority of Canadians are sick of it.

[Guest eureka]

I did say the French Catholic school board. And, I would venture to say that I know more about the PSBGM than you could. I was intimately involved with it. I was also, in my Montreal days, Area representative for the West Island for the QFHSA.

What if Murrays did have English menus? There were hundreds of restaurants in Montreal with French only menus

The whining is entirely of the linguistic supremacists in Quebec and of those misguided "Unncle Toms" who don't know the history of Quebec or Canada. And who also don't know the meaning of a free society.

[maplesyrup]

The major contributors to our linguistic problems are:

PSBGM

City of Ottawa

Conservatives

Unilingual English civil servants

What is your problem with French?

[caesar]

What is your problem with French?

None; use it all you want where the population speaks French; leave us English speaking provinces the right and economic feasibility to speak and use the international English language.

Why should we spend money and time teaching the French language when there are mnore important things to learn. We need to provide basic services in French to accomodate our other Official language; in reality, here in BC, it is more pressing to make services available in many other languages; ones that represent a larger portion of our population than do French speaking citizens.

Service Need not emotionalism.

[kimmy]

Just learn French and stop whining. The majority of Canadians are sick of it.

Well, Syrup, you're right about one thing: the majority of Canadians are sick of the whining.

You're wrong about whose whining they're sick of.

This:

The major contributors to our linguistic problems are:

PSBGM

City of Ottawa

Conservatives

Unilingual English civil servants

What is your problem with French?

...is the kind of whining Canadians are sick of.

-kimmy