Can I Get An Irony Ruling Here? Racialized Students Only!

[Guest]

I thought it was quiche...

[Argus]

Because it's a "safe space" to deal with one's issues...

I'm not sure what is so difficult to grasp about that concept for people like Argus.

I find it amusing how many people on the Left are so enthusiastic about racial discrimination as long as it's white people being discriminated against.

[Argus]

I don't actually have a problem with men's organizations being for men only. But the important question is "What is the purpose of the organization ?".

What difference does it make? Maybe they just want to hang around with other men and don't want women there.

A men's support group, talking about sensitive matters, for example. Why should women be admitted there ? I don't see why.

This is a bunch of 'racialized' people, read minorities, on a campus which is at least half minority anyway. What exactly do you suppose they were doing other than bitching and complaining about white people? If they actually wanted to address issues maybe they ought to actually invite some white people in, hmm?

[The_Squid]

I find it amusing how many people on the Left are so enthusiastic about racial discrimination as long as it's white people being discriminated against.

White people getting together to talk about how hard done by they are are generally called KKK rallies...

[Bob Macadoo]

White people getting together to talk about how hard done by they are are generally called KKK rallies...

.......they're not real Whites.....as real Whites don't whine....ya know.

[Michael Hardner]

What difference does it make? Maybe they just want to hang around with other men and don't want women there.

I already said that the difference is in the purpose of the organization.

This is a bunch of 'racialized' people, read minorities, on a campus which is at least half minority anyway. What exactly do you suppose they were doing other than bitching and complaining about white people?

I have no idea. Maybe they were bitching and complaining about white people.

If they actually wanted to address issues maybe they ought to actually invite some white people in, hmm?

I guess they didn't want to.

[kimmy]

So... like mens clubs, right, which didn't want to admit women?

And still don't.

-k

[TimG]

I already said that the difference is in the purpose of the organization.

Why? What gives to you the right to judge what organizations have a "approved" purpose? Either the rules apply to all or they should not exist.

[Big Guy]

To Michael - I have no problems with any private "club" or "organization" that is "exclusive". It survives on excluding everyone but .....

Many community (and national) service clubs separate the men and women. It is like the old scouts and girl guides.

I belong to a private men's club that allows only men during most hours and couples only on Friday evenings. Membership is quite expensive and controlled. We have a set of by-laws which guide behaviour that is expected. Those who disagree with these conditions do not join. I believe that there are a number of women only clubs in Canada. I believe the one on McGill street in Toronto is one. Good for the ladies!

Personally, I have no problems with people who want to spend their time with their own gender - be it male or female. If no public funds are being used then any organization should able to limit their membership to a specific criteria - from culture to language to colour to gender to sexual preference to .....

I do agree with you that if the purpose of the organization is illegal then we have laws that deal with those conditions. If the purpose does not break any laws then you have a choice - join or ignore. I no not believe that it is anybody else's business.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Big Guy

[Michael Hardner]

Why? What gives to you the right to judge what organizations have a "approved" purpose? Either the rules apply to all or they should not exist.

I'm not judging/deciding here... everybody has a say.

[H10]

Why do white people believe they have the right to be in every meeting in a group they aren't a part of? I sure find it to be strange. You don't see a bunch of straight people showing up at the gay meeting or a bunch of men showing up at women issues meeting trying to tell women all kinds of stuff. I have noticed whenever a white person is let into these types of events they typically derail the discussion and try to take it over. I also believe the legacy of white racism, white imperialism, white colonialism and white racial violence so on means that the mere presence of white people can in many students minds can cause them to behave differently and silence them. Most non-white people learn quiet quickly that when white people are around it is just best to not talk about the issue of race or racism. It is a good idea to bar whites because you have to understand the legacy of white racism will often negatively influence the student group just by white people being present. Also, these groups ought to have a right to meet amongst themselves to figure out how to solve their own issues. A common complaint of white people is non-whites not taking personal responsibility to fix their own issues and depending on whites to fix them. Maybe these folks have taken that advice and are going to fix their own problems without white people. In fact it is almost hypocritical how whites want them to fix their own problems but don't want them to have their own meetings or schools or anything for themselves. How are they suppose to fix their own problems if they cannot meet? Typically the white people coming to these events are coming to troll. But let us pretend that the white person had good intentions. The legacy of racism and colonialism is such that many of these people are going to look to the white person for solutions in the room and that the white person will typically end up assuming a position of leadership undermining the entire point of these group meetings.

I know for instance that in mexico, the concept of the white jesus was bashed into people heads, then when you look on the televnovas it is all blonde hair blue eyed people whiter than American daytime tv shows, then when you look at the leadership it is all white people. This is the legacy of racism and colonialism where mexican people are taught to look to whites for leadership and solutions and it creates issues for the brown folk becoming dependent on whites to solve their problems instead of solving their own problems. These people have literally had it bashed into their head white better than brown. So the mere presence of white folk will undermine their abilitiy to solve their own problems because they have been trained to view whites as the ones who do that. So yes, whites should be excluded.

[TimG]

Most non-white people learn quiet quickly that when white people are around it is just best to not talk about the issue of race or racism.

Perhaps because the vast majority of whites in Canada today are not racist and get pissed off when people accuse them of racism simply because of their skin colour.

Also, these groups ought to have a right to meet amongst themselves to figure out how to solve their own issues.

So a group closed to non-whites would be acceptable? Your faulty premise is that people who share a skin colour have something in common. They don't. Everyone's experience is different and many non-whites have no problems prospering in society today (brown skinned asians are now discriminated against during the college admission process because they are too successful). Now if you want to have a club for brown skinned racists with a chip on their shoulder then I guess you should be able to. But you should not speak as if you speak for all people of colour. You speak for yourself.

the white person will typically end up assuming a position of leadership undermining the entire point of these group meetings.

No - this is group dynamics. The only white people who would show up to such a meeting and want to participate are likely zealots in pursuit of a cause. Such people tend to dominate any group they participate in because that is their personality. It has nothing to do with racism or the "legacy of colonialism". That said, I think you do have a point. Any group can be derailed by a pushy zealot and you need a strategy to deal them. Edited August 30, 2015 by TimG

[H10]

mistake

Edited August 30, 2015 by H10

[H10]

Perhaps because the vast majority of whites in Canada today are not racist and get pissed off when people accuse them of racism simply because of their skin colour.

So a group closed to non-whites would be acceptable? Your faulty premise is that people who share a skin colour have something in common. They don't. Everyone's experience is different and many non-whites have no problems prospering in society today (brown skinned asians are now discriminated against during the college admission process because they are too successful). Now if you want to have a club for brown skinned racists with a chip on their shoulder then I guess you should be able to. But you should not speak as if you speak for all people of colour. You speak for yourself.

No - this is group dynamics. The only white people who would show up to such a meeting are likely zealots in pursuit of a cause. Such people tend to dominate any group they participate in because that is their personality. It has nothing to do with racism or the "legacy of colonialism". That said, I think you do have a point. Any group can be derailed by a pushy zealot and you need a strategy to deal them.

Most non-white people learn quiet quickly that when white people are around it is just best to not talk about the issue of race or racism. This is because the white people accuse you of being the bad guy for calling someone elses' racist behaviour out. Even if you aren't calling them a racist.

Do non-white ever tell whites to solve their own problems. Did Obama lecture whites in New york City and vegas about having to take personal responsibility for the financial crisis they created? I certainly never heard him say you white people created this crisis fix it on your own. Only whites tell non-whites that.

As far as I know Canadian universities do not ask your race, so I am not sure how they are discriminating, except maybe aboriginals who I think get affirmative action in Canadian admissions. First you tell me people who share skin color have nothing in common then you tell me brown skinned asians have something in common... discrimiantion in the application process. If you are going to lie at least keep the lies straight.

I don't care about people of color, that is just a pc line made up by racist people. All people have color, even white people have pink skin. And who died and made you the people of color king?

Thus it is good to keep out the whites, because a normal white person wouldn't show up to an event like that, its not normal.

[TimG]

Do non-white ever tell whites to solve their own problems. Did Obama lecture whites in New york City and vegas about having to take personal responsibility for the financial crisis they created? I certainly never heard him say you white people created this crisis fix it on your own. Only whites tell non-whites that.

Well, if whites were running around blaming blacks for the deficit then you would have a point. This 'fix it yourself' meme generally comes in response to demands that 'we have a problem you fix it'. Turning everything into a race issue is not helpful. The real problem is income differentials. Poor whites have all of the same problems as poor blacks but a larger percentage of the population of blacks is poor. If we can address the inherent disadvantages faced by poor people then we would go a long way to addressing the issue that concern you.

As far as I know Canadian universities do not ask your race, so I am not sure how they are discriminating

Its called "education equity" in Canada and works the same the US. At some universities you need to specifically apply to be considered under the "education equity" program.

Thus it is good to keep out the whites, because a normal white person wouldn't show up to an event like that, its not normal.

I agree. I would not want a person like that to be part of group I was organizing but the reason is because of their personality - not their skin colour. Edited August 30, 2015 by TimG

[Argus]

Why do white people believe they have the right to be in every meeting in a group they aren't a part of? I sure find it to be strange. You don't see a bunch of straight people showing up at the gay meeting or a bunch of men showing up at women issues meeting trying to tell women all kinds of stuff. I have noticed whenever a white person is let into these types of events they typically derail the discussion and try to take it over. I also believe the legacy of white racism, white imperialism, white colonialism and white racial violence so on means that the mere presence of white people can in many students minds can cause them to behave differently and silence them

I don't suppose you've ever paused to wonder at who posts the most racist crap on this web site, have you?

Look in a mirror. It's you.

[H10]

Well, if whites were running around blaming blacks for the deficit then you would have a point. This 'fix it yourself' meme generally comes in response to demands that 'we have a problem you fix it'. Turning everything into a race issue is not helpful. The real problem is income differentials. Poor whites have all of the same problems as poor blacks but a larger percentage of the population of blacks is poor. If we can address the inherent disadvantages faced by poor people then we would go a long way to addressing the issue that concern you.

Its called "education equity" in Canada and works the same the US. At some universities you need to specifically apply to be considered under the "education equity" program.

I agree. I would not want a person like that to be part of group I was organizing but the reason is because of their personality - not their skin colour.

Don't the white republicans blame the deficit on non-whites? The only reason why minorities ask the majority white culture to fix their problem is because of the nature of the system. Think about it rationally. if you are 10% of the population who has little control over government, and the government is the other 80% of the population...with 90% of government control over laws etc. it becomes difficult to fix problems that do not require the majority input but may need government force behind it.

Income differentials is a problem. However, a poor white man is nothing like a poor original man. A poor white man can become a rich white man with a lottery ticket or be like Donald Trump or Ted Turner and get rich go bankrupt and get rich a bunch more times again. I don't know if you noticed this, but a poor white man can get rich a bunch of times. If a original man gets rich and goes poor he is not going to get rich again. And that is because the countries like USA where built for white people. The stick about religious pilgrims coming is a lie. There was a bunch of places in Europe they could have gone for religious freedom, and they were all christians anyhow. Europeans came to Canada and America because europeans were running out of farming land. America was considered the best country because the government would give you free land, and free labour through indian land stolen and african slave labor, so the view was well if you cannot succeed in an agricutlural based society with free land, free labour then you cannot suceed anywhere. If a poor white man becomes a rich white man no one is going to call him a chink, no cop is going to pull him over and card him for being white, he isn't going to have to face the discrimination that a rich original man would face. So I think there is nothing in common.

Addressing poorness issues won't help because the problem isn't just poorness. It is a part, but you cannot address a sexism problem by saying well women make less money and are more likely to be poor so lets help the poor. No, you have to address a sexism problem through fixing sexism. You have to fix a racism problem through fixing racism. You see deny that SOME of these are race problems mean they continue. So if you say ok police cannot card poor people. Ok, well know they just card any original guy in a nice car.

Not everything is a race issue. And bear in mind there are racial legacy issues from colonialism, slavery, apartheid etc that people who are non-white are still grappling with today. There is no real room for white people in these conversations, they are issues that those people need to resolve amongst themselves.

There is no affirmative action or education equity for african or carribean canadians in Canada. Only for aboriginals. I am not that old, but I recall applying for university, they only asked if I was aboriginal. Not my race/culture.

The very presence of a white person can have a negative impact on these groups.