Slow Clap BC. The Left Lane is for PASSING!

[Wilber]

Ahh, but LIDAR, much like LAMPS before it, also has its limitations.........like a blind corner on the Sea-to-Sky hwy.......your "simple radio transmissions" are useless to cars around a blind corner or in a tunnel for example.

Your automated cars very much so will require the use of satellite and cellular transmissions, and in turn, bandwidth....

A blind corner is by defintion blind, you can't see around it either.

[Derek 2.0]

A blind corner is by defintion blind, you can't see around it either.

Sure, but if I go around a blind corner in my automated car, playing on my laptop, eating or having a snooze, and it hits a deer, how does said car warn all the automated cars behind me at speed, sans modern telecommunications? Hence bandwidth...And of course, who's better situated to take/regain control in such scenarios? The person driving or the person playing on facebook in his or hers automated car?

-----

Also, what does the automated car decide in a scenario when faced with a kid on a bike going into traffic? Hit the kid? Go into oncoming traffic? Or into a parked car or ditch? Slam on the brakes and get rear-ended, causing a chain reaction? And then, who or what is liable?

What if there is a power outage and intersection controls fail? Are driver-passengers suddenly forced to take control, and in turn, is there an expectation for drivers to be attentive at all times in their automated cars?

Or would "drivers" of automated cars be allowed to have a few drinks or play on a laptop?

How does the automated car decide if a person on the sidewalk waving their arms is somebody greeting their friend across the street or a cop stopping traffic in an emergency or a BC Hydro worker at a sudden downed power line?

As I said, let me know when they develop and distribute automated golf carts.........

[Wilber]

Sure, but if I go around a blind corner in my automated car, playing on my laptop, eating or having a snooze, and it hits a deer, how does said car warn all the automated cars behind me at speed, sans modern telecommunications? Hence bandwidth...And of course, who's better situated to take/regain control in such scenarios? The person driving or the person playing on facebook in his or hers automated car?

-----

Also, what does the automated car decide in a scenario when faced with a kid on a bike going into traffic? Hit the kid? Go into oncoming traffic? Or into a parked car or ditch? Slam on the brakes and get rear-ended, causing a chain reaction? And then, who or what is liable?

What if there is a power outage and intersection controls fail? Are driver-passengers suddenly forced to take control, and in turn, is there an expectation for drivers to be attentive at all times in their automated cars?

Or would "drivers" of automated cars be allowed to have a few drinks or play on a laptop?

How does the automated car decide if a person on the sidewalk waving their arms is somebody greeting their friend across the street or a cop stopping traffic in an emergency or a BC Hydro worker at a sudden downed power line?

As I said, let me know when they develop and distribute automated golf carts.........

How would you warn drivers coming from behind you at speed? You claim you are better qualified because the machine might not be able to do things you cannot do yourself?

If the vehicle has manual controls, the driver will always be responsible but that doesn't mean they are going to do better than the machine in a given situation. A properly programmed machine is far more likely to exploit that machines limits than a driver. Most drivers have no clue what their vehicle"s limits are and have never come close to using them unless they have had specialized training. If a pilot flies into the ground, the fact the autopilot was on doesn't absolve him of responsibility.

There are already vehicles that can cruise a parking lot and find an empty space. I'll settle for a golf cart that can find a golf ball.

[mrmarconi]

Sure, but if I go around a blind corner in my automated car, playing on my laptop, eating or having a snooze, and it hits a deer, how does said car warn all the automated cars behind me at speed, sans modern telecommunications? Hence bandwidth...And of course, who's better situated to take/regain control in such scenarios? The person driving or the person playing on facebook in his or hers automated car?

-----

This is a question car companies are looking at, and one way of addressing this is mesh networking and data sharing between vehicles. So far though, from what I've read this is in a congested traffic sort of situation. No idea of range etc.

[GostHacked]

This is a question car companies are looking at, and one way of addressing this is mesh networking and data sharing between vehicles. So far though, from what I've read this is in a congested traffic sort of situation. No idea of range etc.

You'll have to deal with data traffic as well as physical traffic. The Data traffic governs the physical. If the network has glitches, expect delays.

[Derek 2.0]

This is a question car companies are looking at, and one way of addressing this is mesh networking and data sharing between vehicles. So far though, from what I've read this is in a congested traffic sort of situation. No idea of range etc.

Hence, as I said, the greater usage of bandwidth.

[Derek 2.0]

How would you warn drivers coming from behind you at speed? You claim you are better qualified because the machine might not be able to do things you cannot do yourself?

Clearly you can't, but for hope that the drivers behind are attentive.

If the vehicle has manual controls, the driver will always be responsible but that doesn't mean they are going to do better than the machine in a given situation. A properly programmed machine is far more likely to exploit that machines limits than a driver. Most drivers have no clue what their vehicle"s limits are and have never come close to using them unless they have had specialized training. If a pilot flies into the ground, the fact the autopilot was on doesn't absolve him of responsibility.

So in this case, we're asking drivers to be responsible for automation that is forced upon them...........As I asked before in this thread (with no response), how many have ever had a dropped call from a cell, or their home computer freeze? By themselves, such faults are a pain in the ass, but don't effect my (or others) safety...............How about a dropped call to my automated car just prior to going through a traffic light or the car's main computer freezing with traveling on the freeway?

There are already vehicles that can cruise a parking lot and find an empty space. I'll settle for a golf cart that can find a golf ball.

I have/had cars with park assist, though handy, they're far from reliable.....scuffed curbside tires and dings in the bumper from the odd shopping cart tend to prove, to me, that we're far from automated cars.........as I said, let me know when they've developed golf carts that can operate safely well automated.

[Wilber]

Clearly you can't, but for hope that the drivers behind are attentive.

Drivers are becoming less attentive. For too many, driving has become secondary to all the other things they do in their vehicles. You can hope they will be attentive but a machine never sleeps or does things that will distract it from the job at hand.

So in this case, we're asking drivers to be responsible for automation that is forced upon them...........As I asked before in this thread (with no response), how many have ever had a dropped call from a cell, or their home computer freeze? By themselves, such faults are a pain in the ass, but don't effect my (or others) safety...............How about a dropped call to my automated car just prior to going through a traffic light or the car's main computer freezing with traveling on the freeway?

It is only forced upon them if there is no way they can operate the vehicle themselves. Otherwise, they can choose to use the automation or not. Either way, they are responsible for the operation of their vehicle. These vehicles do not require a data link to operate and will have backups and multiple channels, just like fly by wire aircraft. They will be self monitoring and can warn drivers when there are system anomalies. To some degree, we have those in vehicles now. People don't even have to check instruments anymore because there will be a chime and a light if a system is not normal. Witness those people driving in the dark with nothing but DRL's. You would think the absence of instrument lighting would give them a clue, if they looked at it.

I have/had cars with park assist, though handy, they're far from reliable.....scuffed curbside tires and dings in the bumper from the odd shopping cart tend to prove, to me, that we're far from automated cars.........as I said, let me know when they've developed golf carts that can operate safely well automated.

Think about the vehicles you were driving ten years ago and tell me there hasn't been a huge difference in technology. That isn't going to slow down, it will accelerate. Golf carts would be easy. They operate in a small, known area with little traffic. Many already have GPS systems that would be fully capable of navigating a cart around a golf course. Played a course a couple of weeks ago that had carts with GPS that if I touched a point on the map on the screen, it would give me the yardage to that point and from that point to the front and back of the green and pin, Knew where all the hazards were and the yardage to them. If you got too close to a green or no cart area, forward would cut out and you would have to back up until you were clear of the area. All that would be needed is the mechanical modifications to physically operate the cart. I doubt any but the highest end courses would want to put out the money to modify dozens of carts just so players don't have to drive them. But you never know.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Wilber

[eyeball]

I suggested years ago the answer to speeding is GPS. Connect it to a map of all the speed zones and the engine speed or braking system and voila problem solved - you can't drive faster than the GPS/speed zone allows.

Failing that the GPS could just record speed infractions, download these to CSIS who could share that info with your local law enforcers, auto insurer, financial institution etc.

Edited March 12, 2015 by eyeball

[Derek 2.0]

Drivers are becoming less attentive. For too many, driving has become secondary to all the other things they do in their vehicles. You can hope they will be attentive but a machine never sleeps or does things that will distract it from the job at hand.

No argument there.

It is only forced upon them if there is no way they can operate the vehicle themselves. Otherwise, they can choose to use the automation or not. Either way, they are responsible for the operation of their vehicle. These vehicles do not require a data link to operate and will have backups and multiple channels, just like fly by wire aircraft. They will be self monitoring and can warn drivers when there are system anomalies. To some degree, we have those in vehicles now. People don't even have to check instruments anymore because there will be a chime and a light if a system is not normal. Witness those people driving in the dark with nothing but DRL's. You would think the absence of instrument lighting would give them a clue, if they looked at it.

How would said automated car, driving among other automated cars, determine traffic lights/signals sans the sharing of data? Already, a GPS for your car bought at Canadian Tire transmits and receives data and with some, even as detailed as known locations with intersection cams..........

Think about the vehicles you were driving ten years ago and tell me there hasn't been a huge difference in technology. That isn't going to slow down, it will accelerate. Golf carts would be easy. They operate in a small, known area with little traffic. Many already have GPS systems that would be fully capable of navigating a cart around a golf course. Played a course a couple of weeks ago that had carts with GPS that if I touched a point on the map on the screen, it would give me the yardage to that point and from that point to the front and back of the green and pin, Knew where all the hazards were and the yardage to them. If you got too close to a green or no cart area, forward would cut out and you would have to back up until you were clear of the area. All that would be needed is the mechanical modifications to physically operate the cart. I doubt any but the highest end courses would want to put out the money to modify dozens of carts just so players don't have to drive them. But you never know.

As I said, I don't doubt (and have witnessed firsthand) how technology will benefit drivers, but as I outlined, we're generations from fully self-driving cars....... let me know when they can produce a fully automated golf cart.

But, you did speak the magic word: Money.......bandwidth, which would be a must for networked automated cars, costs money, like I said, when the US military is forecasting shortages in worldwide bandwidth to operate fleets of UAVs, the near-term prospects for widespread usage of self driving cars is nil.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[Wilber]

All the GPS does is receive signals from GPS satellites and compute a position. Everything else is in its data base, that is why they go out of date and have to be updated. Other than that the only thing might receive or transmit is by bluetooth using your cell phone. Traffic signals could tell vehicles their status by transmitting simple radio signals. If the vehicle was not getting a signal from a traffic light in its data base, or its camera found a signal that wasn't in its data base, it could just warn the driver.

The only bandwidth required would be that needed to update the system's data base and most of that could probably be done on your home wifi. As far as cost goes, you can buy a PC today that is a hundred times more capable and at a quarter of the price compared to just ten years ago. Manufacturers are just getting started and it will snowball as more R&D is devoted to it, just like every other technology.

This won't happen all at once and autonomous vehicles won't be able to operate everywhere, it will be gradual as infrastructure and databases are expanded. Expect more and more driving duties to be done by automation in the near future.

Building an automated golf cart wouldn't be difficult, I have already explained that but I'm not sure why anyone would want to. I also don't know why you would expect a golf cart to find a ball you can't find yourself. There have been motorized pull carts that will follow you as you walk the course for quite some time.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Wilber

[Bonam]

How would said automated car, driving among other automated cars, determine traffic lights/signals sans the sharing of data? Already, a GPS for your car bought at Canadian Tire transmits and receives data and with some, even as detailed as known locations with intersection cams..........

Same way you do: by looking at the lights/signals. Cameras and image recognition. No proposed self-driving car relies on wireless data / GPS / etc to drive... these signals can easily be lost/interferred/jammed, etc. Self-driving cars rely on built in, multiply redundant, sensors to be aware of the environment, primarily cameras but potentially also radar, lidar, and others. GPS location and map data is used for route-planning, not driving. And wireless signals from other vehicles, if part of the architecture at all, would only be a supplementary source of information.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Bonam

[Derek 2.0]

Same way you do: by looking at the lights/signals. Cameras and image recognition. No proposed self-driving car relies on wireless data / GPS / etc to drive... these signals can easily be lost/interferred/jammed, etc. Self-driving cars rely on built in, multiply redundant, sensors to be aware of the environment, primarily cameras but potentially also radar, lidar, and others. GPS location and map data is used for route-planning, not driving. And wireless signals from other vehicles, if part of the architecture at all, would only be a supplementary source of information.

Then you're not following the industry:

Communication between the car, its driver, pedestrians and other cars on the road is a key element of this car. The car builds a picture of the outside world for navigation through a system of optical, radar and other sensors that read the environment. Meanwhile, the vehicle’s internal connectivity downloads traffic data and other things taking place beyond the reach of the car’s sensors from the cloud.

Hence bandwidth........bring on the automated golf carts.

[Derek 2.0]

All the GPS does is receive signals from GPS satellites and compute a position. Everything else is in its data base, that is why they go out of date and have to be updated. Other than that the only thing might receive or transmit is by bluetooth using your cell phone. Traffic signals could tell vehicles their status by transmitting simple radio signals. If the vehicle was not getting a signal from a traffic light in its data base, or its camera found a signal that wasn't in its data base, it could just warn the driver.

Who is going to pay to install and operate transmitters at every intersection?

The only bandwidth required would be that needed to update the system's data base and most of that could probably be done on your home wifi. As far as cost goes, you can buy a PC today that is a hundred times more capable and at a quarter of the price compared to just ten years ago. Manufacturers are just getting started and it will snowball as more R&D is devoted to it, just like every other technology.

This won't happen all at once and autonomous vehicles won't be able to operate everywhere, it will be gradual as infrastructure and databases are expanded. Expect more and more driving duties to be done by automation in the near future.

The "future" is a subjective term........when currently, electric cars make-up a tiny fraction of the current market and sales, far less mature self driving cars will not be adopted, widespread, anytime soon.

Building an automated golf cart wouldn't be difficult, I have already explained that but I'm not sure why anyone would want to. I also don't know why you would expect a golf cart to find a ball you can't find yourself. There have been motorized pull carts that will follow you as you walk the course for quite some time.

And they won't be adopted, like you said, because of money............How much does a Google Car cost again?

[Bonam]

Communication between the car, its driver, pedestrians and other cars on the road is a key element of this car. The car builds a picture of the outside world for navigation through a system of optical, radar and other sensors that read the environment. Meanwhile, the vehicle’s internal connectivity downloads traffic data and other things taking place beyond the reach of the car’s sensors from the cloud.

Like I said... supplementary information.

[Wilber]

Who is going to pay to install and operate transmitters at every intersection?

Everyone, once government and industry realize how much they will improve vehicle safety.

The "future" is a subjective term........when currently, electric cars make-up a tiny fraction of the current market and sales, far less mature self driving cars will not be adopted, widespread, anytime soon.

You say decades, I say much sooner

And they won't be adopted, like you said, because of money............How much does a Google Car cost again?

They will be adopted because of money. Money society spends dealing with the results of motor vehicle accidents. Self driving golf carts won"t save anyone money but they might attract customers. How much did the original PC's, VCR's, flat screen TV's, CD and DVD players, cell phones or any other new technology cost?

Like I said... supplementary information.

Already being provided by services such as Onstar. Edited March 13, 2015 by Wilber

[nerve]

It is just a money grab. Speed limits were put in place as an energy saving measure during the energy crisis.

There is no longer an energy crisis, safety speeds should exist instead of limits, and be advisory not civil infractions.

Totally disgusting socialist totalitarianism.

Same thing happened with the invention of income tax to pay war debt from WWI, then it was used to build larger and larger beaurocracies to manage red tape to make privileged and unpriveleged people in a slave society.

Edited March 15, 2015 by nerve

[nerve]

Who is going to pay to install and operate transmitters at every intersection?

The "future" is a subjective term........when currently, electric cars make-up a tiny fraction of the current market and sales, far less mature self driving cars will not be adopted, widespread, anytime soon.

And they won't be adopted, like you said, because of money............How much does a Google Car cost again?

Its not the cost scada isn't secure, tech gets hacked.

A few dollars a sensor ain't expensive. smartphones cost 10's of dollars to produce. tech will be built right into stoplights by the stoplight companies or partners.

Then the power goes out and the world shuts down.

DARPA can already hack cars computers to control them remotely.

http://jalopnik.com/darpa-hacks-gms-onstar-to-remote-control-a-chevrolet-i-1684593523

DARPA ain't the only one.

Edited March 15, 2015 by nerve

[Wilber]

It is just a money grab. Speed limits were put in place as an energy saving measure during the energy crisis.

There is no longer an energy crisis, safety speeds should exist instead of limits, and be advisory not civil infractions.

Totally disgusting socialist totalitarianism.

Same thing happened with the invention of income tax to pay war debt from WWI, then it was used to build larger and larger beaurocracies to manage red tape to make privileged and unpriveleged people in a slave society.

Ah, no. There were speed limits long before there was any energy crisis. The 55 limit was imposed in the US as a result of the OPEC embargo in the early seventies but it is long gone and there were limits long before that. Even Germany which doesn't have limits on many autobahns has limits on all other roads. Limits were recently raised on some BC limited access roads and early numbers indicate an increase in crashes. It will be interesting to see what longer term statistics show.

[ron Young]

How bout we just deny drivers licences to people who can't drive. I'm all for cancelling licences for people who: Refuse to signal lane changes or turns, Tailgaters, reckless speeders, and those folks who think the road is there for them alone. Having driven professionally way more KM's than I care to remember the lack of skill and utter disregard for other motorists is so apparent no matter where you drive in this country it is by far the biggest cause of fatal accidents. Install that technology in a car or truck. You act like an idiot behind the wheel and your vehicle parks itself and refuses to start until a good drivers ed course is completed.

Honestly if you can't park or back up a vehicle without cameras or sensors I really hate sharing the road with you. Is it so hard to start, park, brake, manage your speed?

GPS units are a handy tool but why on earth would you mount them in the middle of your line of sight on your windshield? Better yet why do you need it on all of the time including night time? The darker it is inside of your vehicle at night the better you can see outside your vehicle....Baffles me to see people with 7" screen brightly lit pointed right at their eyes. The stupidity of that is so ridiculous if it wasn't so dangerous it would actually be funny.