Public Schools Prepare Learners

[Bonam]

I think the idea of lumping "private schools" together into some kind of single category is not meaningful in any way. There are a great variety of different private schools, with different target audiences, teaching methods, standards, etc. There are private schools for gifted learners, and private schools for children with learning disabilities. There are private schools that provide support for low income families. There are private schools to provide a learning environment in accordance with various religions. There are co-ed and single gender private schools. There are private schools with a focus on academics, and others with a focus on music/art or on athletic achievement.

All of these provide their students with different "life experiences" and prepare them for post-secondary education in different ways. They cannot all be described with the same broad brush as people have been doing in this thread.

For myself, I spent grades 4-7 in a private school, after having to leave public school due to excessive bullying. The private school was one aimed at gifted children, and also offered a very low fee since my parents were low income at the time. It was very helpful and allowed me to be able to socialize with other kids normally, most of these kids also having been ones that couldn't get along in public school. Those years of normal social interaction made it possible for me to go to a public high school program and succeed, whereas had I stayed in a public school being bullied and outcast, I could have ended up with a much worse outcome.

[Michael Hardner]

Big difference between private/public.

Are you sure ? Why would this be ? Do you have a cite ?

Not sure what rural vs urban has to do with it.

I grew up with gay rural kids in the 80s. It's no picnic, believe me, but whatever doesn't kill you make you stronger. If you don't know what being gay in a rural setting means, then you're likely a city person.

[Bob Macadoo]

No one knows because that is not a real or reasonable situation, and not the one studied.

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Then it is a skewed study that was a conclusion looking for data.

[jacee]

Then it is a skewed study that was a conclusion looking for data.

Your proposed study would have no validity since it reflects no real situation.

All of these students were accepted to UBC and in 1st year math courses. Public school grads scored slightly better than private.

That's a valid comparison and that's reality.

It's also true as Bonam says that private schools cover a whole range of clientele.

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[Bob Macadoo]

Your proposed study would have no validity since it reflects no real situation.

All of these students were accepted to UBC and in 1st year math courses. Public school grads scored slightly better than private.

That's a valid comparison and that's reality.

It's also true as Bonam says that private schools cover a whole range of clientele.

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It's an invalid comparison as the sample sizes wouldn't allow for a definitive correlation. They checked out (1) class of (1) university, over a couple of years, I'm by no means defending private schools......just pointing out that sociology dep'ts spew out flawed "studies" all the time as candidates need to churn out PhD thesis papers.

It's a peeve of mine. A paper is written stand-alone, media picks up on it without knowing or caring the basis, context or review this study has had.....play it out as the latest buzzword revelation then bloggers with a bone use it as "definitive proof" of some view.

The more these happen the more proven studies suffer from being referred to as junk science.....

Edited February 9, 2015 by Bob Macadoo

[Mighty AC]

I can't see what difference public/private school would make, though. Maybe rural vs. urban, or religious vs. secular...

If enrollment is limited to a specific religion, gender, socioeconomic status or race (even if just by SES) it can make a big difference on the world view of students.

[jacee]

It's an invalid comparison as the sample sizes wouldn't allow for a definitive correlation. They checked out (1) class of (1) university, over a couple of years,

4,500 is a pretty decent sample, 2 classes over 5 years.

It's not a correlation, likely a t-test, public school grads ~3% higher grades.

I'm by no means defending private schools......just pointing out that sociology dep'ts spew out flawed "studies" all the time as candidates need to churn out PhD thesis papers.

It's a peeve of mine. A paper is written stand-alone, media picks up on it without knowing or caring the basis, context or review this study has had.....play it out as the latest buzzword revelation then bloggers with a bone use it as "definitive proof" of some view.

The more these happen the more proven studies suffer from being referred to as junk science.....

Note the qualifying word "may".

At least the media have that down pat.

But it's not a bad study of first year physics and calculus students at UBC. lol

Their hypothesis - that the result is due to public students benefiting from less individual attention/more autonomy - is speculative.

I expect the ivy league, religious and other private schools would likely be interested in a breakdown.

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Edited February 10, 2015 by jacee

[Ash74]

4,500 is a pretty decent sample, 2 classes over 5 years.

It's not a correlation, likely a t-test, public school grads ~3% higher grades.

Note the qualifying word "may".

At least the media have that down pat.

But it's not a bad study of first year physics and calculus students at UBC. lol

Their hypothesis - that the result is due to public students benefiting from less individual attention/more autonomy - is speculative.

I expect the ivy league, religious and other private schools would likely be interested in a breakdown.

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I agree. This original statement was much too wide of a category.

With so many different kinds of private schools we can not compare a gifted children's school to a school for troubled kids.

Even public schools have different issues. Some schools will have a much better chance of going on to university than others because of the areas they live in

[Mighty AC]

With so many different kinds of private schools we can not compare a gifted children's school to a school for troubled kids.

Even public schools have different issues.

The popular education documentary "Waiting For Superman" starring Geoffrey Canada had a similar problem. It compared the worst public schools from the poorest neighbourhoods, to US charter schools. Charter schools aren't private but they do get to choose their students. Any student not putting in an effort can get tossed back to the regular public school and replaced with another. With all of the lazy, disinterested students cut from the roster, the charter schools managed to dramatically outperform the contrasting, low SES, public schools. Amazing!

[Ash74]

The popular education documentary "Waiting For Superman" starring Geoffrey Canada had a similar problem. It compared the worst public schools from the poorest neighbourhoods, to US charter schools. Charter schools aren't private but they do get to choose their students. Any student not putting in an effort can get tossed back to the regular public school and replaced with another. With all of the lazy, disinterested students cut from the roster, the charter schools managed to dramatically outperform the contrasting, low SES, public schools. Amazing!

Yeah I don't see that coming to Canada. lol

It is an interesting theory. Why should the students that apply themselves be handicapped by those that cause disruptions or do not care?

[Mighty AC]

Yeah I don't see that coming to Canada. lol

It is an interesting theory. Why should the students that apply themselves be handicapped by those that cause disruptions or do not care?

They shouldn't. Smaller, streamed classes are a great thing educationally, but they are also expensive. Traditional ed methods target the middle leaving out the top and bottom ends. At the elementary level we do a better job of remediating the slower students than enriching the advanced. At the secondary level we improve the plight of advanced students via streaming but then lump the diligent but slow in with those who have behaviour and special needs issues.

To make the most out of large classes there has been a movement away from whole group, live lecture style teaching. Through differentiation, multiple small groups, flipped classes, projected based learning, etc. teachers are now providing more individualized help within whole classes.

[WestCoastRunner]

Are you sure ? Why would this be ? Do you have a cite ?

I grew up with gay rural kids in the 80s. It's no picnic, believe me, but whatever doesn't kill you make you stronger. If you don't know what being gay in a rural setting means, then you're likely a city person.

Not sure what a gay person growing up in a rural setting has to do with private vs public schooling. Although I do understand the struggles. I don't recall saying that I don't know what being gay in a rural setting means.

My point was that when students are taught in a private school setting, they are taught in a 'like minded' environment. Not much room for expanding their mind to other demographics.

[GostHacked]

Yea, I believe that children being educated in a multicultural environment has many advantages. Even if parents are bigots, I feel that children can overcome those beliefs given exposure to many ethnethicities.

I was not exposed to many ethnicities as a child and yet I did not grow up to be a bigot. I guess the absence of growing up in a religion helped with that mentality.

[Michael Hardner]

Not sure what a gay person growing up in a rural setting has to do with private vs public schooling.

Read back in the thread. I was responding to a query when I posted earlier that urban/rural is more of a cultural shift than private/public.

My point was that when students are taught in a private school setting, they are taught in a 'like minded' environment. Not much room for expanding their mind to other demographics.

I guess that just makes sense, although I doubt you'd be able to prove it.