cybercoma Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Come on... who are you guys trying to fool? The practice is an extremely mysoginistic cultural practice of fundementalists.. It sure is and the difference between you and those arguing against you is that those arguing against you believe that we should create the conditions for a woman to choose to take off the niqab herself and not be forced or coerced into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) The woman on the left chooses what to wear, as long as she doesn't look too slutty at the office or too prudish at the bar. But then if she looks too slutty at the bar, she was asking for it if she's groped or raped. Yeah. Free choice and all that. Wow... you took a giant leap there!!! It sure is and the difference between you and those arguing against you is that those arguing against you believe that we should create the conditions for a woman to choose to take off the niqab herself and not be forced or coerced into it. I don't disagree with that at all... but good luck changing the mind of a person with fundamentalist religious views! One of the best ways would be to not allow people with fundamentalist extremist religious views into the country at all. If you are a Muslim who insists women must wear sheets over their heads at all time, you can't enter. Then we can also work on the ones that are already here with the educational campaigns and the like... Edited October 6, 2015 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 It sure is and the difference between you and those arguing against you is that those arguing against you believe that we should create the conditions for a woman to choose to take off the niqab herself and not be forced or coerced into it. The conditions already exist, we just need to be patient. What we should be expressing impatience over is how long it's taking for 'old stock' Canadians to stop their habit of letting politicians freak them out in the face of yet another wave of migration. Canadians who let themselves be led by the hand down this worn old path probably need to take the citizenship oath more than anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 It sure is and the difference between you and those arguing against you is that those arguing against you believe that we should create the conditions for a woman to choose to take off the niqab herself and not be forced or coerced into it. For women who are forced to wear a niqab, this decision has taken away her chance to not wear it in public. It only plays into the hands of the oppressor and does nothing to help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 For women who are forced to wear a niqab, this decision has taken away her chance to not wear it in public. It only plays into the hands of the oppressor and does nothing to help her. When are you people finally going to do something about the misogynists? Why are they still getting such a free pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 When are you people finally going to do something about the misogynists? Why are they still getting such a free pass? I doubt Westcoastrunner is pro-mysoginist... come on... Why can't she be anti-niqab and anti-mysoginist at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 One of the best ways would be to not allow people with fundamentalist extremist religious views into the country at all. If you are a Muslim who insists women must wear sheets over their heads at all time, you can't enter. The thing is, people who *insist* that women should wear the niqab or veil appear to be a minority of Muslims; do you have information that contradicts that? The majority of Muslim women choose, of their own free will and sometimes over the objections of their family, to wear the niqab according to any credible resources I can find. So an immigration form that asked if the applicant felt it was a religious requirement for a woman to cover her face in public would be most likely to get an answer of "No", but we'd still end up with niqab wearing women here. And even those applicants who were inclined to force women to cover their face would pretty quickly figure out how to answer the questions "correctly" in order to pass their citizenship test or obtain PR status. There are governments in other parts of the world who legislate the wearing of the niqab, and Muslim women protest that because it's removing choice. We could also legislate what women cannot wear, but that just makes us the same as those governments that legislate what women must wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 When are you people finally going to do something about the misogynists? Why are they still getting such a free pass? Misogynists exist all over the place in Canadian culture; it's not limited to any one ethnicity or religious affiliation. Why are they still getting a 'free pass'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 I doubt Westcoastrunner is pro-mysoginist... come on... Why can't she be anti-niqab and anti-mysoginist at the same time? Show me. I have yet to see anyone propose any sort of action that is directed at the real problem here...the men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Misogynists exist all over the place in Canadian culture; it's not limited to any one ethnicity or religious affiliation. Why are they still getting a 'free pass'? All the more reason to focus on the real problem. Forcing women just blurs the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Misogynists exist all over the place in Canadian culture; it's not limited to any one ethnicity or religious affiliation. Why are they still getting a 'free pass'? I am all for your education idea! I agree 100%. Let's implement it tomorrow! Is it in the NDP or Liberal platform? I am of the opinion that we should take it a step further... ban the niqab and don't let people with extremist religious views into the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Maybe the men should be disallowed from attending the ceremony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Show me. I have yet to see anyone propose any sort of action that is directed at the real problem here...the men. I have agreed with everything that you suggested about how to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 One of the best ways would be to not allow people with fundamentalist extremist religious views into the country at all. If you are a Muslim who insists women must wear sheets over their heads at all time, you can't enter. This is not the "best way" to do anything. You would be counting on people to self report and nobody would. And in any case you would be wasting time and energy trying to solve a virtually non-existant problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 There are governments in other parts of the world who legislate the wearing of the niqab, and Muslim women protest that because it's removing choice. We could also legislate what women cannot wear, but that just makes us the same as those governments that legislate what women must wear. Please provide a cite for this protest of women against the niqab in fundamentalist countries. I doubt it happens in those batshit crazy countries... or if it does, it is short-lived with beatings and be-headings to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 All the more reason to focus on the real problem. Forcing women just blurs the issue. As does focusing on a single group of men. And even then, education is the best way to address it, though certainly penalties for criminal behavior should be enforced. I've yet to see a anyone change their mind because someone "forced" them to do things differently. Most people find it hard to change change their mind when presented with facts, or even scientific studies replicated dozens of times. Just consider the anti-vaxxers. (Unless you are one, in which case you can assume I said 'vaxxers'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Not always. Don't tell me. Explain to this woman what gives you the right to decide if she is oppressed. Explain to other woman what gives the state the right to arrest their spouses and force them to stay away from the AGAINST THEIR WILL! They want their spouses back and don't want them charged, just because they smacked them around a little! Why shouldn't they be allowed to make that decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 How about a public education campaign instead of a public vilification campaign? Who exactly has vilified these women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 What we should be expressing impatience over is how long it's taking for 'old stock' Canadians to stop their habit of letting politicians freak them out in the face of yet another wave of migration. Do you have any evidence that old stock Canadians are more opposed to the niqab than newcomers? In my experience, the people who have said the nastiest things about Muslims (and Jews) have all been immigrants. In fact, I've never met a non-Muslim immigrant who approved of Muslims. Go ask a bunch of Hindus what they think of Muslims. Go ask a bunch of Chinese immigrants what they think of the niqab. Methinks your liberal biases are showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Methinks you have a bag over your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Misogynists exist all over the place in Canadian culture; it's not limited to any one ethnicity or religious affiliation. Why are they still getting a 'free pass'? Who says they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Show me. I have yet to see anyone propose any sort of action that is directed at the real problem here...the men. The real problem is the men who have re-interpreted the Koran over the past twenty years to make these stupid things seem like holy garments - and the people who have fallen for it. We can't do anything about the former, but we can keep the latter from immigrating to Canada. Don't know why you folks on the Left are so violently opposed to that idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Methinks you have a bag over your head. I'll take that as an admission you were talking out of your ass and really have no idea what groups are opposed to the niqab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 You do whatever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Don't know why you folks on the Left are so violently opposed to that idea... Well I cant speak to the opinions of imaginary people inside your head. But philosophically I see no untility at all making fassion an immigration litmus test. Rejecting claims on these grounds for either the women or their husbands is going to make the women WORSE of. Its not helping them. And it does nothing useful for Canadians either. If a women is in a relationship with someone that is coercing them to wear things they dont want to wear the VERY BEST chance they have of moving past that is to move to a place like Canada where women are equal under the law and in the eyes of their peers. So at the end of the day its a policy that does nothing useful for anyone at all. Id prefer the government focus on making sure immigrants will obey our laws. Furthermore I cant find any evidence of a problem to fix. This is just a non-issue. A completely pointless and irrelevant distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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