bush_cheney2004 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 ....FOX News is about the farthest we go in accepting biased information. No...CBC News is also readily accepted...that's going even further. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Why should we allow "these people" to cover their heads and then become citizens of our country! It's a logical question, and I do understand that you've always been distressed whenever anyone tries to introduce logic into your self-righteous, whining expositions on your own moral superiority. But that's YOUR problem. By the way, you seem to be posting a lot of Nazi quotes lately. That your favorite reading material, Herr Big Guy? Some people learn from the past while others want to repeat it. Some people wish to discuss things intelligently and some people wish to shut down any discussion with which they disapprove. Seems to me your attitude is more akin to fascism than mine. You take no rational positions but merely post insults towards those who do. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 No...CBC News is also readily accepted...that's going even further. At least you can call CBC news, Fox, not so much. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 CBC and FOX are generally accepted, yes. Moving on. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 There's this economic idea known as growth. Our PM, an economist, believes in it and hasn't curtailed immigration. You are well aware that our PM is a political whore, just like the PMs before him. Immigration is designed to advance the political interests of such people, not to benefit Canadians. Mulroney tripled immigration, not to improve the economy, but to improve his election fortunes. Harper has increased immigration this year, an election year, for no stated reason or purpose other than to look 'pro immigrant'. Further, if we were designing an immigration system for economic growth we would be bringing over immigrants who can contribute to the economy in the best manner possible. That would mean, in the case of married people a younger man and woman who both have the skills and education to get decent jobs. That is certainly not the case in these patriarchal Muslim families where the women are generally not educated, have no job skills, and no expectation of ever working outside the home. You don't appreciate other cultures, but most Canadians don't have such extreme views as yours We should appreciate a religious culture which puts women on the level of animals, says they can be beaten to keep them in line, killed if they dishonor the family, and must wear shrouds wherever they go so as to not arouse men? Sorry, but I don't appreciate any of those sentiments. The idea of not letting people into the country because you don't like how they look is pretty infantile and worthy of scorn. I think this argument is infantile and worthy of scorn, for it's not, and you know this, simply how they look, but what these garments represent, and they represent the subjugation and inferiority of women. I continue to be befuddled at how frantically the Left, which embraces equality, will defend a cultural value system which is diametrically, even violently opposed to any notions of equality. Perhaps instead of insulting the poster you could try to answer the question he posed. What value is there to Canada in embracing THIS particular culture? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Ive already discussed what it says. No, you said you read somewhere that the koran mentions the hijab seven times, but the hijab in the koran is not the garment, and in any event the hijab is not the niquab. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 No, you said you read somewhere that the koran mentions the hijab seven times, but the hijab in the koran is not the garment, and in any event the hijab is not the niquab. Thats what I said, yep. Quote
kungfuthug Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 I am not afraid nor will I be shamed to be quiet. If Islam wants to take over Canada it will over my dead body. I am a big guy and have yet to have anyone try anything but even if they did I'm ready to fight. No problem. Plus, I don't really see it as harrassment. They have come to my country and are trying to tell me how it should be...No, that is wrong in my book. When in rome you do as the Romans do, you don't try to change everything to suit your needs. You adapt to the new country. If they don't like this country as it is then they should find someplace else that is more to their liking. Back to my point previously. We came to Canada and did not what the aboriginals did. We ASSIMILATED and pillaged. It is harassment when you blatantly tell someone they are not acceptable to your standards. You were likely a bully in school and it never ended there... am I right to assume? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Mulroney tripled immigration, not to improve the economy, but to improve his election fortunes. Although you have posted some evidence towards this in the past, that evidence did not exclude economic growth as a reason for, or goal of. It did mention political goals that could be achieved by increasing immigration though. We should appreciate a religious culture which... This has been addressed elsewhere. You're tying these things together in your own mind with evidence from far-flug places but you have not posted evidence that these are values of Canadian Muslims. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
kungfuthug Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 No, they are not just wearing something. They are also recruiting for ISIS, building radical mosques etc. This is a problem. We don't need things blowing up here in Canada. It's just a matter of time before they are bombing here, don't think it cant happen MH, it certainly can. So that's why I say, why let any of them in? Why take the chance? Just keep all them out. Also, I'm not trying to troll or be argumentative or break any rules, just stating my opinion MH please just take it as such. OMG please stand back and look at the outlandish statements. You have a greater chance of dying slipping on the ice than by a terror attack in Canada... Yes Canada... a country that already has well over 1 Million Muslims in it already. Yes over 1 Million of these bombers that are spreading their terror and explosives around our cities everyday. Our infrastructure is in ruins and terror training recruitment mosques are at every corner. People are being forced to convert everywhere at gunpoint... Relax. Get in your car and drive to work. You should worry more about that than anything else as it is likely the most risky thing you have to do in your daily life. Car crashes claim more lives in one year than ALL of the Canadians that have died from terror attacks EVER. If your so scared about a non-threat maybe you should focus on reality. Per 2011 stats on fatal accidents http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/roadsafety/TrafficCollisionStatisitcs_2011.pdf Quote
Big Guy Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 A symbol is "symbolic" of something. There is no written explanation on most symbols so it may mean something very different to different people. In Germany, during the last war, Jews were forced to wear the six pointed star of David, the "Yellow Badge" as a badge of shame. Many Jews now wear the same star around their necks as a source of pride. A symbol is by the pre judgement of the observer. How one reads a symbol tells a lot about the person observing than the wearer. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) The purpose of wearing such garb in Canada is to separate oneself from Canadian society, to make it manifest that you are not of that society, that you are different, and disagree with the tenets of that society's culture and values. What bloody sense is there for someone wearing such garb and expressing such sentiments to be invited to join us as a citizen? To celebrate the culture we've invited with them. As you know we are a multicultural society that celebrates our differences we have whole government departments devoted to this tenet of our social and multicultural values and I bet bureaucrats even encourage new Canadians to wear whatever traditional or cultural clothing they like.Just so we're clear here are you coming out against the wearing of any sort of cultural garb that distinguishes new Canadians from ordinary Canadians? Edited February 16, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kungfuthug Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 As for Sharia law, the laws of the land still have to be obeyed on a macro level, but undoubtedly practices such as female genital mutilation go on behind the scenes. Female mutilation is not an Islamic thing. I don't know how this misconception can be credited to the Qaran. Watch this video please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw Quote
Big Guy Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Does the "ordinary Canadian" wear moccasins, leather clothes and eagle feathers in their hair? Would you be allowed to vote, give an oath or walk down a street in those clothes without being harassed by Capt.Canada? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
kungfuthug Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) There is more to Islam than the Qaran. These are called Hadith and Sunnah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah Muslims who follow the Qaran also follow the above as well. Here is an example regarding women covering their hair. http://www.irfi.org/articles/women_in_islam/is_head_cover_for_women_mandator.htm Edited February 16, 2015 by kungfuthug Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 There is more to Islam than the Qaran. These are called Hadith and Sunnah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah Muslims who follow the Qaran also follow the above as well. Here is an example regarding women covering their hair. http://www.irfi.org/articles/women_in_islam/is_head_cover_for_women_mandator.htm Thanks for the info. Quote
Guest Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Female mutilation is not an Islamic thing. I don't know how this misconception can be credited to the Qaran. Watch this video please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw Eating fish is not a Christian thing, but undoubtedly some do. FGM is a cultural practice granted, but it is common among Islamic cultures. I have no need for your video. Edit>Thanks for the offer, all the same. Another edit> Althought FGM is not mentioned in the Koran, it is in the Hadith, and positively so. According to Wiki, anyway. Edited February 16, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Although you have posted some evidence towards this in the past, that evidence did not exclude economic growth as a reason for, or goal of. It did mention political goals that could be achieved by increasing immigration though. It also mentioned the Economic Council of Canada advised the cabinet there was no evidence to suggest it would improve the economy, and that if they were going to do it non-economic reasons would have to be used. This has been addressed elsewhere. You're tying these things together in your own mind with evidence from far-flug places but you have not posted evidence that these are values of Canadian Muslims. You haven't found any evidence the social and cultural beliefs of Canadian Muslims are significantly different than those of world Muslims. After all, they come from those same far-flung places. And they didn't come here because they hate their religion or culture. They came here because this country is stable and prosperous. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 To celebrate the culture we've invited with them. As you know we are a multicultural society that celebrates our differences And they are from a religious culture which violently rejects differences. Just so we're clear here are you coming out against the wearing of any sort of cultural garb that distinguishes new Canadians from ordinary Canadians? I'm okay with Irish barmaids wearing short kilts. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Female mutilation is not an Islamic thing. I don't know how this misconception can be credited to the Qaran. Neither is the Niquab but nevertheless, it is in the Muslim world where it is being trumpeted as the proper thing for Muslim girls. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 You haven't found any evidence the social and cultural beliefs of Canadian Muslims are significantly different than those of world Muslims. Here's something worth thinking about. Your religion or your country first ? http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/21/muslim-western-tensions-persist/ http://www.horizons.gc.ca/eng/content/muslims-canada-findings-2007-environics-survey When asked whether they identify first as Muslim or first as Canadian, 56 percent of Canadian Muslims chose Muslim first, while 23 percent chose Canadian first. That pretty much matches Israel which had 57 percent choosing Judaism first, with 22 percent choosing their country. US Christians were 46 percent to 46 percent, tied. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
On Guard for Thee Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 It also mentioned the Economic Council of Canada advised the cabinet there was no evidence to suggest it would improve the economy, and that if they were going to do it non-economic reasons would have to be used. You haven't found any evidence the social and cultural beliefs of Canadian Muslims are significantly different than those of world Muslims. After all, they come from those same far-flung places. And they didn't come here because they hate their religion or culture. They came here because this country is stable and prosperous. So you concede they cae here because its stable ad prosperous, yet you also suggest they will violently reject change. Which is it. Quote
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 Here's something worth thinking about. When asked whether they identify first as Muslim or first as Canadian, 56 percent of Canadian Muslims chose Muslim first, while 23 percent chose Canadian first. That pretty much matches Israel which had 57 percent choosing Judaism first, with 22 percent choosing their country. US Christians were 46 percent to 46 percent, tied. That's nice. The thing is that no Christian or Jew ever attacked their countrymen because of their perception that their country was attacking or harming another country which was Christian or Jewish. At least, I've never heard of it happening anywhere. The same most definitely cannot be said for Muslims. Muslims have attacked their countrymen in just about every nation where they live because of their anger at what the perceive is indignities or violence being committed in Muslim countries, even Muslim countries where they've never visited and where they don't know anyone. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 So you concede they cae here because its stable ad prosperous, yet you also suggest they will violently reject change. Which is it. Because they always have? I dunno, when the Muslim community holds a gay rights celebration and a bikini contest I guess I'll change my mind. Think those are gonna happen any time soon? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted February 16, 2015 Report Posted February 16, 2015 That's nice. The thing is that no Christian or Jew ever attacked their countrymen because of their perception that their country was attacking or harming another country which was Christian or Jewish. Ok. So we're moving on to a new discussion now ? Sure. "no Christian or Jew".... seems to say the acts of a single or person in this regard are significant. I don't agree. But I've satisfied your previous query, which you seem to acknowledge above. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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