jacee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 So, do we exist to serve the constitution, or is it the other way around? It's the other way around. The Constitution serves to protect the individual rights of every single Canadian to freedom from discrimination. It doesn't matter a hoot what the government thinks of what someone wears or what the majority of Canadians want her to wear. What matters in constitutional law is her right to practice her faith as she wishes without being discriminated against for it. . Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Intuitively, Canadians know that something is amiss when people like yourself throw up your hands and say there is nothing that we can do. Yes, we call all ratify an amendment to remove religious freedom from the constitution. That means that churches will have taxation exemption removed, religious education can be banned, Catholics be forced to allow women priests.... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Keepitsimple Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Yes, we call all ratify an amendment to remove religious freedom from the constitution. That means that churches will have taxation exemption removed, religious education can be banned, Catholics be forced to allow women priests.... Michael - you're going way over the top. Here's a critically important element of our Charter Rights and specifically - Freedom of Religion. Can you not agree that the removal of one's niqab while taking the Oath might fall under "reasonable accommodation"? The duty of reasonable accommodation on religious grounds experiences some limits, because all rights are not absolutes.[20] Indeed, reasonable accommodation requires a balance between the rights of the claimant and the holder of the duty to accommodate.[21] See "limits": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Canada Quote Back to Basics
jacee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Michael - you're going way over the top. Here's a critically important element of our Charter Rights and specifically - Freedom of Religion. Can you not agree that the removal of one's niqab while taking the Oath might fall under "reasonable accommodation"? See "limits": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Canada Oh well. You lost. ? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Michael - you're going way over the top. Here's a critically important element of our Charter Rights and specifically - Freedom of Religion. Can you not agree that the removal of one's niqab while taking the Oath might fall under "reasonable accommodation"? See "limits": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Canada Reasonable accommodation is actually what allows her to wear the niqab. The thinking being that the benefits of allowing her to participate outweigh the risks of banning of the niqab and forcing her to retreat into her own community. Quote
Smallc Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Reasonable accommodation is actually what allows her to wear the niqab. The thinking being that the benefits of allowing her to participate outweigh the risks of banning of the niqab and forcing her to retreat into her own community. Forcing her? I don't think that she should be made to take it off, but no one is forcing her to reatreat anywhere. It's her own backwards religious beliefs that are 'forcing her' to wear the niquab. As an athiest it all seems pretty rediculous. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Forcing her? I don't think that she should be made to take it off, but no one is forcing her to reatreat anywhere. It's her own backwards religious beliefs that are 'forcing her' to wear the niquab. As an athiest it all seems pretty rediculous. Ad there is the point, especially in this particular case. They are her beliefs, religious or otherwise, that cause her to want to wear the niqab. Quote
Smallc Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Ad there is the point, especially in this particular case. They are her beliefs, religious or otherwise, that cause her to want to wear the niqab. Of course. It doesn't change the ridiculousness of it, or make someone like Argus wrong. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Of course. It doesn't change the ridiculousness of it, or make someone like Argus wrong. I also do not subscribe to any religion, but I personally would stop short of callig someone who does, ridiculous. Argus, now thats a different story. Quote
Smallc Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 I also do not subscribe to any religion, but I personally would stop short of callig someone who does, ridiculous. Argus, now thats a different story. Religion is ridiculous. The more orthodox you are, the more ridiculous and impervious to reason you become. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Religion is ridiculous. The more orthodox you are, the more ridiculous and impervious to reason you become. I guess thats why you are an atheist. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Religion is ridiculous. The more orthodox you are, the more ridiculous and impervious to reason you become. The same could be said for any ideological system......including the one that believes in canadian "values". An orthodoxy by any other name may smell as sweet...... Quote
Smallc Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 The same could be said for any ideological system......including the one that believes in canadian "values". An orthodoxy by any other name may smell as sweet...... The difference being that one is based on something that actually exists and can be seen, and the other on a book about a sky man. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Oh, so that mosque,church, synagogue down the street isnt real then. How come I can see it. Quote
Guest Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 If you go to Vulcan, Alberta you can see a spaceship! Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 The difference being that one is based on something that actually exists and can be seen, and the other on a book about a sky man. Ahhh yes those ever so visible canadian values...... Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 The difference being that one is based on something that actually exists and can be seen, and the other on a book about a sky man. .....I'm also glad you readily admit your canadian values are..."impervious to reason." Quote
Argus Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 The same could be said for any ideological system......including the one that believes in canadian "values". An orthodoxy by any other name may smell as sweet...... Are you saying you don't believe in having values? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Moonlight Graham Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 So, do we exist to serve the constitution, or is it the other way around? The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is designed to protect our rights and freedoms. That includes religious rights and freedoms. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Keepitsimple Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is designed to protect our rights and freedoms. That includes religious rights and freedoms. As I posted previously, here's a critical point about those rights......the "claimant" has a right to wear the niqab but it would seem that it would be a reasonable accommodation if they were to lift/remove it when taking the Oath of Citizenship. Does that not make sense? The duty of reasonable accommodation on religious grounds experiences some limits, because all rights are not absolutes.[20] Indeed, reasonable accommodation requires a balance between the rights of the claimant and the holder of the duty to accommodate.[21] See "limits": http://en.wikipedia....igion_in_Canada Quote Back to Basics
On Guard for Thee Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 As I posted previously, here's a critical point about those rights......the "claimant" has a right to wear the niqab but it would seem that it would be a reasonable accommodation if they were to lift/remove it when taking the Oath of Citizenship. Does that not make sense? See "limits": http://en.wikipedia....igion_in_Canada As I posted before, here is how the SC actually interprets that part of the charter. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/supreme-courts-niqab-decision-strikes-a-reasonable-balance/article6599756/ Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Are you saying you don't believe in having values? A framework of behaviours ever able to evolve to produce content society? Not belief but adherence. A strict ideology to which reason and flexibility are abhorrent......like "canadian values" ...not so much. Edited March 21, 2015 by Bob Macadoo Quote
Argus Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 A framework of behaviours ever able to evolve to produce content society? Not belief but adherence. A strict ideology to which reason and flexibility are abhorrent......like "canadian values" ...not so much. Do you reject the notion that Canadians, by and large, subscribe to a particular set of values? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 Oh, so that mosque,church, synagogue down the street isnt real then. How come I can see it. Do you misunderstand purposely or is that just a thing you have? You've seen God? Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Do you reject the notion that Canadians, by and large, subscribe to a particular set of values? .....if you are referring to my second reference...then I reject that "we" do. Edited March 21, 2015 by Bob Macadoo Quote
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