.

[jacee]

Argus, don't bother , trudeau has then all brainwashed into believing this country is for the immigrant of the future not for the people that actually live here and pay the bills.

The immigrants of the future will be the ones paying our bills when we're old.

Surely even a 'righty' can figure that out!

The liberals and NDP have become wimps big time, if they let this women tell them what to do.

She's only telling people what she is doing.

It is disgusting and a insult to the people that have died for this country to allow her to get away with this.

People "died for this country" defending minority rights, not denying them.

.

Edited March 18, 2015 by jacee

[Keepitsimple]

Minorities ... 'tiny fringe groups' ... are the ones whose rights are specifically protected by the Charter.

The tyranny of the majority that Harper et al attempt to impose, is a violation of the Charter.

.

The irony zipped right over your head.

[On Guard for Thee]

I think we know who is being ignorant here. That would be the one who ascribes positions to others they've never taken. I have never suggested we put in a law banning the wearing of shrouds nor have I spoken in favour of one.

What I have said is that we need no more people like this, and should not be importing them.

Yeah not quite sure what your phrase...people like this means, (although in your case I think I have a pretty good idea) but the laws of this country allow for immigration,thats how I, and a whole lot of us got here. And once here we are expected to respect the laws of the land, which is exactly what has happened in this case. Maybe Harper and Kenney could use a primer

[cybercoma]

Yes, and the left defends almost anything from a culture that oppresses women, gays, and well, you name it.

Right. Let's not stick with the issue here. Let's make some stupid generalizations about the left defending everything. Oh that's ok, you hedged your comment with "almost."

[guyser]

I think we know who is being ignorant here. That would be the one who ascribes positions to others they've never taken.

Including but not limited to.....those who ascribe the position of every womens reason to wear a hijab/burqa.

Right?

[Black Dog]

That's bullshit. I'm interested in human rights and preventing the abuse of the innocent everywhere. However, I've pretty much given up on certain parts of the world. I haven't given up on THIS part of the world, however, which is why I would indeed like to keep people with those kinds of attitudes out of it.

You're basically saying the same thing I am, only in terms more flattering to yourself. Let it never be said we've never agreed on anything.

What I can't figure out is why you lefties are so passionate to bring more extremists over here. Surely you realize they spit on almost every social belief you embrace.

Speaking solely for myself, I can't think of a time I ever argued for bringing more people in or not. I do know it's a tangential to the question of whether or not a woman who is already in Canada should be allowed to wear the niqab at the citizenship ceremony.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Including but not limited to.....those who ascribe the position of every womens reason to wear a hijab/burqa.

Right?

And every "lefty" who defends someone's right to wear one.

[cybercoma]

Your assumption that a woman from Muslim society could not possibly make her own decision as to what she wears only demonstrates your ignorance

It's hardly surprising, when the same poster makes misogynistic arguments all the time. Obvious these poor women can't think and do anything for themselves. They're just women. Worst still, they're Muslim women. So they're doubly screwed.

[guyser]

The irony zipped right over your head.

YOu really should go learn about irony. LOL

[cybercoma]

Maybe she was lying, or maybe she's a religious extremist, or mentally deranged. Can you think of another reason to wear a shroud everywhere you go?

Awesome. Let's go on the mentally deranged assumption. I'll just assume that your posts are borne out of your mental illness.

[guyser]

And every "lefty" who defends someone's right to wear one.

Careful, we have someone here who apparently believes that the intolerant ones are the ones who will not remove a hijab or burqa .

[jacee]

The irony zipped right over your head.

I ignored your feeble attempt at irony because it was faulty: your second statement was just bizarre.

.

[cybercoma]

People who believe women should be beaten if they get out of line, because they must, by order of God, obey their husbands. People who believe gays should be killed. People who believe in Sharia law and all that entails, including requiring four witnesses to prove a rape.

These are absolutely typical beliefs of orthodox Muslims, and it is only orthodox Muslims who wear this garment.

Right. Because there's people on this forum who support that? Quit conflating issues. You sit here and call everyone idiots, but you can't seem to understand difference in "those people." All you see is Muslim and think they're all the same as the moronic stereotypes you've built up in your mind.

[cybercoma]

Um, just for your edification, it was the courts who told the Cons. what to do, since what they tried to do is illegal.

Just to be clear. They courts didn't tell the Cons what to do. They told the Cons what they weren't allowed to do.

[Keepitsimple]

You're lapsing into total incoherence now.

Again: that would be part of the right to free expression. Why do you hate Canadian values?

You're twisting yourself into knots in trying to avoid the real issue. It's what the niqab represents - and almost all Canadians - along with the vast majority of Muslim Candians - see the niqab as a symbol of oppression along with the accoutrements that go with it - not allowing a woman to be seen by another male unless related for example.......and Lord knows how many other women's rights are violated by this tiny (in Canada) ultra-patriarchal culture. Contrary to what the ostrich-like Left on this forum say, Canadians are not stupid, they are not ignorant, and they are not uneducated. They know it's more than the shallow thinking that says "It's a woman's right to wear what she chooses". They know what is right - and what is wrong. Why are you not willing to stand up for Canadian values?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Keepitsimple

[Smallc]

So you are suggesting that religious freedom only applies only if we first impose our 'dress standards' on people?

.

How about our standard of freedom?

[Smallc]

Define "people like this"?

.

Religious extremists?

[Smallc]

Careful, we have someone here who apparently believes that the intolerant ones are the ones who will not remove a hijab or burqa .

They aren't intolloerant. They're just accessories to sexual slavery.

[On Guard for Thee]

You're twisting yourself into knots in trying to avoid the real issue. It's what the niqab represents - and almost all Canadians - along with the vast majority of Muslim Candians - see the niqab as a symbol of oppression along with the accoutrements that go with it - not allowing a woman to be seen by another male unless related for example.......and Lord knows how many other women's rights are violated by this tiny (in Canada) ultra-patriarchal culture. Contrary to what the ostrich-like Left on this forum say, Canadians are not stupid, they are not ignorant, and they are not uneducated. They know it's more than the shallow thinking that says "It's a woman's right to wear what she chooses". They know what is right - and what is wrong. Why are you not willing to stand up for Canadian values?

Well, this woman went to court and they found that her rights were being violated by our own government.

[guyser]

.......and Lord knows how many other women's rights are violated by this tiny (in Canada) ultra-patriarchal culture.

Never mind the broader picture of the violation of womens rights across the country...right? Afterall, our esteemed PM certainly doesnt give a shite about the perils of the Status of Native women who dissappear at an alarming rate.

But naw....lets focus on the 10 women in Canada who wear a veil.

Contrary to what the ostrich-like Left on this forum say, Canadians are not stupid, they are not ignorant, and they are not uneducated.

Correct you are, and most of those dont ascribe to the sanctimonious ways the right who want to ban a pice of clothing. Which mostly shoots down the head in the sand argument, because in actual fact, it is an absurd template proferred by our govt to be all up in arms on some women, but ignore the other ones who have problems , and numbers, beyond the pale.

They know it's more than the shallow thinking that says "It's a woman's right to wear what she chooses". They know what is right - and what is wrong. Why are you not willing to stand up for Canadian values?

Because , as said ad naseum, who do F are you or this govt to tell anyone what to wear?

And psssst....it IS a womans right to wear what she wants. Lordy, how can it be anything else?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Guyser2

[Black Dog]

You're twisting yourself into knots in trying to avoid the real issue. It's what the niqab represents

What it represents is pretty much irrelevant, as evidenced by the fact the government did not cite it in its original decree about unveiling for the oath which was entirely "to ensure that all citizenship candidates are, in fact, reciting the oath as required by law.” The fact that the Tories and their fellow travelers have chosen to wait until after the ban was struck down to wrap themselves in the flag of women's rights is quite telling.

- and almost all Canadians - along with the vast majority of Muslim Candians - see the niqab as a symbol of oppression along with the accoutrements that go with it - not allowing a woman to be seen by another male unless related for example.......and Lord knows how many other women's rights are violated by this tiny (in Canada) ultra-patriarchal culture. Contrary to what the ostrich-like Left on this forum say, Canadians are not stupid, they are not ignorant, and they are not uneducated. They know it's more than the shallow thinking that says "It's a woman's right to wear what she chooses". They know what is right - and what is wrong. Why are you not willing to stand up for Canadian values?

What's right in a free society: allowing people to do what they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

What's wrong in a free society: the arbitrary exercise of state power to restrict individual liberty.

That's how I see it.

Let's agree for a moment that niqabs are a symbol of oppression (an interpretation, it may surprise you to learn, that I agree with; just read my posts on this very subject from 2011 when this debate first arose). What are you proposing be done about it, exactly? What does forcing women to remove their face coverings at certain times do to advance the cause of equality? I suspect you don't have any answers for these questions because you haven't really thought any of this stuff through, but just like to puff out your chest and pretend the CPC applause lines you parrot actually mean something.

[Smallc]

Never mind the broader picture of the violation of womens rights across the country...right? Afterall, our esteemed PM certainly doesnt give a shite about the perils of the Status of Native women who dissappear at an alarming rate.

How do you know he doesn't? We know he doesn't beleive an inquiry will provide the answers - and he's right. We already have the answers. Aboriginal women have higher rates of substance abuse, are more likely to live and work on the streets, and are more likely to be killed by aboriginal men.

[Black Dog]

How do you know he doesn't? We know he doesn't beleive an inquiry will provide the answers - and he's right. We already have the answers. Aboriginal women have higher rates of substance abuse, are more likely to live and work on the streets, and are more likely to be killed by aboriginal men.

And he's doing what with that knowledge?

Right: nothing.

[Smallc]

And he's doing what with that knowledge?

Well, he proposed (in cooperation with the former national chief) an education bill that included funding and standards that would go a long way towards alleviating many of the problems. They have also put more money into policing and security, and put in place legistation to keep violent and repeat offenders off of the street. What do you expect him to do, exactly?

[jacee]

They know what is right - and what is wrong. Why are you not willing to stand up for Canadian values?

Why are you not standing up for freedom of religion ... or clothing choices?

And BTW ... 'religious freedom' means you are free to follow such practices as are appropriate for your sincerely held religious beliefs, regardless of whether or not a formal religious organization requires it.

And it certainly makes no difference what others think.

.

Edited March 18, 2015 by jacee