Inflationgate

Wilber · January 24, 2015

I have no idea if it is the first time NE or any other team has done this.

What is important is what do they evidence for.

As far as we "know" it is only this game that had a problem.

The problem was "2 psi" which sounds like a lot compared to a properly regulated ball (12.5 to 13.5 psi - so 15%) but we do not know if that 2 psi is rounded up, how much it is rounded up, if the balls were intentionally inflated with hot air and/or intentionally deflated (or any other mechanism that could lead to a 15% difference intentionally).

Once the facts have been established for this one case then let the NFL throw the book at whoever and whatever is culpable according to the rule book which, appears, to not make a huge stink over this.

If the balls were out of range, a rule was broken, there are no mitigating circumstances. The team is given the responsibility of making sure the balls are at the specified pressure. If they are not, the rule is broken. Whether it was intentional may be open to debate but clearly, a rule has been broken. If a race car fails a technical inspection and doesn't comply with a rule, the sanctioning body could care less why, the rule was broken and penalties apply. It is the teams responsibility to ensure it complies with the rules.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Wilber

msj · January 24, 2015

Not sure how many times I have to state this: investigate, get the evidence, and apply the rules.

In the meantime, can we wait for the SB to be over first before rendering the execution order?

Wilber · January 24, 2015

Not sure how many times I have to state this: investigate, get the evidence, and apply the rules.

In the meantime, can we wait for the SB to be over first before rendering the execution order?

As I said, IF the balls were out of range.

msj · January 24, 2015

We know that 11 of them were out of range although whether this means one ball was at 10.7 (I.e. rounded to 2 psi difference when really 1.8) while 10 were between 11.8 and 12.2 (for example) is not clear yet (I think, haven't seen the specific numbers).

It is the how and why that are at question.

If intentional then clearly that warrants a different level of punishment than if accidental.

Other questions that may be raised: does allowing Aaron Rodgers to have a ball at the top of the range (13.5 psi) give him an advantage since that is his preference while not allowing Brady to have balls at his preferred range (say 11.5) a disadvantage?

Why is the range 12.5 to 13.5? Why not 11 to 14? Or 11.5 to 14.5?

Those are the things I'm interested in.

Edited January 24, 2015 by msj

Wilber · January 24, 2015

We know that 11 of them were out of range although whether this means one ball was at 10.7 (I.e. rounded to 2 psi difference when really 1.8) while 10 were between 11.8 and 12.2 (for example) is not clear yet (I think, haven't seen the specific numbers).

It is the how and why that are at question.

If intentional then clearly that warrants a different level of punishment than if accidental.

Other questions that may be raised: does allowing Aaron Rodgers to have a ball at the top of the range (13.5 psi) give him an advantage since that is his preference while not allowing Brady to have balls at his preferred range (say 11.5) a disadvantage?

Why is the range 12.5 to 13.5? Why not 11 to 14? Or 11.5 to 14.5?

Those are the things I'm interested in.

Doesn' t matter, the temperature range is specific, if it is not within that range the ball is out of compliance with the rules. The how and why is irrelevant. There is no how and why to technical specifications, only is or isn't.

Big Guy · January 24, 2015

A couple of questions for the bright ones out there;

1. How much does the average NFL football weigh when inflated to 12.5 psi and 13.5 psi?

2. How much does an NFL football weigh when inflated to 10.5psi?

3. How much would an NFL football weigh if it was inflated to 13 psi with Helium?

4. Would an NFL football inflated with Helium travel farther when kicked by a punter?

msj · January 24, 2015

Doesn' t matter, the temperature range is specific, if it is not within that range the ball is out of compliance with the rules. The how and why is irrelevant. There is no how and why to technical specifications, only is or isn't.

The how and why may be important as to the penalty levelled.

If this is systematic cheating then Roger ought to step in.

If there is some other reason(s) then the rule book only needs to apply as is.

kimmy · January 24, 2015

A couple of questions for the bright ones out there;

1. How much does the average NFL football weigh when inflated to 12.5 psi and 13.5 psi?

2. How much does an NFL football weigh when inflated to 10.5psi?

3. How much would an NFL football weigh if it was inflated to 13 psi with Helium?

4. Would an NFL football inflated with Helium travel farther when kicked by a punter?

It's not about the weight of the ball, BG. An underinflated ball is softer and easier for the receivers to squeeze when they make a catch. A more inflated ball is harder and doesn't squeeze, so it's harder to catch. The Patriots do a lot of throwing, but very little punting, so they really wouldn't care how much it affected punting.

-k

GostHacked · January 24, 2015

11 of 12 balls were 2 pounds psi below what's suppose to be the regulation weight. All 12 of the Colts balls were regulation. The Ravens suspected the balls were light the week before, and tipped off the Colts. They cheated. And it's not the first time, unless of course they were very unlucky and got caught the first time they attempted this. Throw in the fact that they're the first team in 25 years not to fumble at home during the whole season, and it smells pretty bad. Do you know what helps not fumbling? Underinflated footballs.

Why would the teams have their own balls? Why not have the officials provide the footballs? Or would that just make too much sense and this problem may not exist.

Wilber · January 24, 2015

The how and why may be important as to the penalty levelled.

If this is systematic cheating then Roger ought to step in.

If there is some other reason(s) then the rule book only needs to apply as is.

I'm not going to speculate on what penalties should be applied but clearly, a rule was broken and it doesn't matter why. There is no ish whe it comes to equipment specifications. It is the teams responsibility to comply.

msj · January 24, 2015

The Patriots do a lot of throwing, but very little punting, so they really wouldn't care how much it affected punting.

-k

Since the officials have full control over the 8 balls used for kicking it is going to take quite the conspiracy by NE to affect that part of the game.

Hasn't stopped the Ravens from making the claim as I have already linked to above. Even at that, statistically their claim does not add up.

Each team offense provides their own balls that they are responsible for. The home team usually keeps two sets of 12 so NE was able to use their second set in the 3rd quarter as they were properly inflated.

msj · January 24, 2015

I'm not going to speculate on what penalties should be applied but clearly, a rule was broken and it doesn't matter why. There is no ish whe it comes to equipment specifications. It is the teams responsibility to comply.

I think we largely agree on this.

Keep in mind that the commissioner has the discretion to add further penalties which is fine with me to the extent that NE is actually proven to have intentionally deflated the balls.

There is a difference between negligence and first degree murder to make a poor analogy.

My complaint is the extent to which the vapid sports world (talk radio for example) jumps to stupid accusations and conclusions.

The Ravens example I have mentioned above being particularly bad.

Big Guy · January 24, 2015

Since no one appears ready to answer my physics question I will go another route. NFL game balls are "worked" by the ball handlers to "fluff them up". If the process of "working" them up is squeezing, planning, roughing etc. and the result is that the outside (and inside) circumference of the ball increases, would not the PSI drop accordingly?

Wilber · January 25, 2015

Since no one appears ready to answer my physics question I will go another route. NFL game balls are "worked" by the ball handlers to "fluff them up". If the process of "working" them up is squeezing, planning, roughing etc. and the result is that the outside (and inside) circumference of the ball increases, would not the PSI drop accordingly?

Maybe but the rules say they must a certain pressure for the game, not a week before or an hour before. I don't see how that can be misinterpreted.

Bonam · January 25, 2015

A couple of questions for the bright ones out there;

1. How much does the average NFL football weigh when inflated to 12.5 psi and 13.5 psi?

2. How much does an NFL football weigh when inflated to 10.5psi?

3. How much would an NFL football weigh if it was inflated to 13 psi with Helium?

4. Would an NFL football inflated with Helium travel farther when kicked by a punter?

The volume of a prolate spheroid (like a football) is given by 4/3 * pi * a^2 * b (where a is its minor axis and b is its major axis). For a football, that works out to 0.0045 m^3.

Air at atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) weighs 1.25 kg/m^3. A 1 psi difference would be 0.068 kg/m^3. For the volume of the football, you'd get a mass difference of 0.0045 m^3 * 0.068 kg/m^3 = 0.0003 kg.

So that's 0.3 grams weight difference for each 1 psi pressure difference. That is, a negligible change. For helium, the result is also a negligible change.

As kimmy mentioned, it is not the weight of the ball, but how it handles, that is most affected by pressure.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Bonam

Big Guy · January 25, 2015

Bonam, thanks for the solutions. I appreciate the work you put into it.

But - "For helium, the result is also a negligible change"? I question that conclusion. I would assume that outside forces around the ball would change dramatically with the increased "lift".

Bonam · January 25, 2015

Bonam, thanks for the solutions. I appreciate the work you put into it.

But - "For helium, the result is also a negligible change"? I question that conclusion. I would assume that outside forces around the ball would change dramatically with the increased "lift".

The "lift" (buoyancy force) of the helium inside the ball would have the effect of lowering the ball's effective weight by ~8 grams.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Bonam

Shady · January 25, 2015

Why would the teams have their own balls? Why not have the officials provide the footballs? Or would that just make too much sense and this problem may not exist.

I agree. The current rules of each team providing their own footballs to use is ridiculous and only invites teams "customizing" their own preferences.

msj · January 25, 2015

I agree. The current rules of each team providing their own footballs to use is ridiculous and only invites teams "customizing" their own preferences.

Yet we would still have conspiracy nut jobs repeat claims made by the Ravens about deflated balls even when those balls are controlled by the officials. Such as the kicking balls conspiracy linked to above.

I like Aaron Rodgers idea of having a minimum level only (say 12 psi). But he likes an overinflated ball so no surprise there.

If the NFL wants to be serious about this issue then they will have to actually test the balls prior to each game with a gauge and again at half time and again at the end of the game.

It is still unknown as to how often that is done.

It appears that the officials usually use a squeeze test by feel.

I have my doubts as to the lack of rigorous testing methods used by the officials which may make this "scandal" nothing more than another black mark on the incompetence of the NFL itself.

msj · January 25, 2015

I have seen this incident compared to using an illegal stick in the NHL which gets a 2 minute penalty.

If the NFL wants to be serious about this then they need to either control all the balls rather than just the kicking balls.

Or they need to do actual testing throughout games with the penalty being something like a 15 yard penalty.

Perhaps it can be "self enforced" by allowing teams to challenge the other teams' balls. If the balls are inflated properly then the challenging team loses a time out.

Or something along those lines...

kimmy · February 1, 2015

Inflationgate explained.

-k

Wilber · February 2, 2015

I have seen this incident compared to using an illegal stick in the NHL which gets a 2 minute penalty.

If the NFL wants to be serious about this then they need to either control all the balls rather than just the kicking balls.

Or they need to do actual testing throughout games with the penalty being something like a 15 yard penalty.

Perhaps it can be "self enforced" by allowing teams to challenge the other teams' balls. If the balls are inflated properly then the challenging team loses a time out.

Or something along those lines...

At the height of inflation gate. Micheal Strahan brought two balls to their morning show. One properly inflated and the other to the pressure found in the NE balls. Everyone on the show who handled the balls could immediately tell which ball was under inflated, including Kelly Ripa. You would think the officials could to.

kimmy · February 2, 2015

Wow! That had to be one of the best Super Bowls ever! What an amazing finish.

I am pretty stunned that the Seahawks threw the ball in that situation, when they have the best running back in football standing there. Give Marshawn Lynch 3 chances to get you a yard and he will get it. 100% certain.

Monster game by Tom Brady, despite throwing a couple of interceptions. When it was crunch time, they just could not stop him. 300+ yards, 4 touchdown passes, a new record for completions... he has equaled or surpassed the legends in every category for Superbowl achievements.

I liked the commercial about the horse and the puppy. I also enjoyed the one with Liam Neeson being mad about losing a video game.

And the Katy Perry show was pretty cool, aside from the Missy Elliot portion, which sucked. I really enjoyed the part with the dancing sharks and the Spongebob Squarepants setup. That was too cute!

-k