Bryan Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Name one Canadian "big box" retailer that has done very well in the United States. Walmart bought 120 crappy Woolco locations, just like Target bought crappy Zellers, and pumped a lot more money into the expansion. Name one that has even tried. Big Box is a fairly new thing in Canada. Walmart bought good locations, the same ones they operate profitably today. They did their homework and did not buy the poor locations. After the purchase, they continued to operate them as Woolco for quite some time so that they could get a good understanding of Canadian's shopping habits, and how the distribution system that was in place worked. When they first changed the name over to Walmart, they literally just changed the sign outside. They gradually transformed those Woolco's and continued to keep them profitable the whole time. Then they expanded by building new locations and expanding existing ones. Each new step only happened when the last one was worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Name one that has even tried. Big Box is a fairly new thing in Canada. If it was that easy, surely one of Canada's successful "big box" retailers would have tried by now. Walmart has about eight times the annual gross sales revenue as Target, and much deeper pockets. The money for expansion did not come solely from Canadian operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 If it was that easy, surely one of Canada's successful "big box" retailers would have tried by now. The comparison doesn't even make sense. Big fish eat little fish, that's not news. It's when the big fish can't even come close to competing to the much smaller fish in the much smaller pond that something is amiss. Walmart has about eight times the annual gross sales revenue as Target, and much deeper pockets. The money for expansion did not come solely from Canadian operations. Forget about Walmart, they weren't even Target's biggest problem in Canada. Most of the Targets were located in places nowhere near a Walmart, but that did have several larger Canadian stores. The one closest to me is in an area where most of the residents have a lot of money to spend. They're well off, but they're not stupid. Canadian Tire, Giant Tiger, Shoppers Drug Mart, and Real Canadian Superstore all have better selection and better pricing. Right next door, you don't even have to move the car. Even now, when they are putting the inventory on clearance, Target STILL doesn't get it. Their "clearance" prices are still higher than Canadian Tire or Superstore's normal prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 ....Forget about Walmart, they weren't even Target's biggest problem in Canada. Most of the Targets were located in places nowhere near a Walmart, but that did have several larger Canadian stores. The one closest to me is in an area where most of the residents have a lot of money to spend. They're well off, but they're not stupid. Canadian Tire, Giant Tiger, Shoppers Drug Mart, and Real Canadian Superstore all have better selection and better pricing. Right next door, you don't even have to move the car. No....can't forget Walmart or put too much weight in your personal shopping experience. Walmart Canada is the second largest retailer in Canada behind Weston, and half of the top twenty retailers in Canada were based in the U.S. as of 2011. Walmart ate Zellers' lunch as well, an established Canadian retailer going back to the 1930's, yet it still failed. Target had to compete with all of that after launching with severe location and inventory challenges. Target is a "small fish" compared to Walmart. http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02856.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Target had to compete with all of that after launching with severe location and inventory challenges.Location challenges...hmm.....did they not know where the stores were? DId they not have a plan? Guess not. Inventory challenge, that must be American speak for "we really had no f'ing clue what to sell nor how, and really, are we to listen to the Canucks we hired to teach us 'Mericans? " "Them northerners will buy the empty space we put on every aisle" Cha....right. Edited January 18, 2015 by Guyser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 No....can't forget Walmart or put too much weight in your personal shopping experience. Walmart Canada is the second largest retailer in Canada behind Weston, and half of the top twenty retailers in Canada were based in the U.S. as of 2011. Walmart ate Zellers' lunch as well, an established Canadian retailer going back to the 1930's, yet it still failed. Target had to compete with all of that after launching with severe location and inventory challenges. Target is a "small fish" compared to Walmart. http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02856.html You're still missing the point. Walmart is irrelevant. Target couldn't even compete with ANYONE in Canada. The stores that were in the same retail complexes (where there were no Walmarts to be found) were beating them. SMALL Canadian retailers who weren't even in that top 20 were kicking their asses. Zellers didn't fail. It was doing fine. They just saw a sucker who wanted to pay them $2 billion for just the leases. That's good business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 You're still missing the point. Walmart is irrelevant. Target couldn't even compete with ANYONE in Canada. The stores that were in the same retail complexes (where there were no Walmarts to be found) were beating them. SMALL Canadian retailers who weren't even in that top 20 were kicking their asses. Then why didn't these small, oh so successful Canadian retailers gobble up the cheap Zellers floor space ? Walmart beats up on Target and others everywhere, including the U.S. Target's exit now leaves a retail floor space void and it will be interesting to see if these very successful Canadian retailers can fill it. Zellers didn't fail. It was doing fine. They just saw a sucker who wanted to pay them $2 billion for just the leases. That's good business. Zellers was losing money for 20 years but it was "kicking ass", right ? Target is still profitable ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Ack! Is hell freezing? Bush_cheney and I are in agreement more often than I am comfortable with. But facts are facts and Zellers sucked and CDN retail sucks too. Which is why it's too bad our petro-loonie is going down. Getting expensive to cross the border for all those nice stores..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Then why didn't these small, oh so successful Canadian retailers gobble up the cheap Zellers floor space ? Walmart beats up on Target and others everywhere, including the U.S. Target's exit now leaves a retail floor space void and it will be interesting to see if these very successful Canadian retailers can fill it. Zellers was losing money for 20 years but it was "kicking ass", right ? Target is still profitable ! Where did you hear Zellers was losing money? The same place where you read Target bought all their merchandise? Edited January 18, 2015 by BubberMiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Then why didn't these small, oh so successful Canadian retailers gobble up the cheap Zellers floor space ? They already have the retail space in the same retail complexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Ha! I love this...."Zellers customers were old and cheap"....Target couldn't duplicate the Zellers experience ! http://www.torontolife.com/style/toronto-stores/2012/08/22/target-not-like-zellers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 They already have the retail space in the same retail complexes. No...I mean the retail space that Target will walk away from. Why didn't Canadian big box retailers compete with Target for the space to begin with if it was so easy to make a buck in Canada ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) How Zellers failed.....note references to Target and Walmart. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/how-zellers-failed/article625001/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/zellers-era-drawing-to-a-close/article579416/ Edited January 18, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 No...I mean the retail space that Target will walk away from. Why didn't Canadian big box retailers compete with Target for the space to begin with if it was so easy to make a buck in Canada ? They ALREADY had the retail spaces in those locations. In most instances, they purpose built the stores from the ground up -- they are BETTER spaces. They not only competed with Target, they beat the crap out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 They ALREADY had the retail spaces in those locations. In most instances, they purpose built the stores from the ground up -- they are BETTER spaces. They not only competed with Target, they beat the crap out of them. Target was working with crappy Zellers locations and spaces, not purpose built super-stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Target was working with crappy Zellers locations and spaces, not purpose built super-stores. And they couldn't even come close to doing the same business Zellers was already doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) And they couldn't even come close to doing the same business Zellers was already doing. They didn't want to do the same Zellers business....Target is not a bottom rung discount retailer. It was not a replacement for Zellers. No wonder Target failed...it couldn't replace the Zellers suck: https://colleenanderson.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/a-follow-up-on-how-zellers-sucks/ Edited January 18, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 They didn't want to do the same Zellers business....Target is not a bottom rung discount retailer. It was not a replacement for Zellers. Target definitely wasn't a replacement for Zellers -- because they sucked MUCH more than Zellers ever did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Target definitely wasn't a replacement for Zellers -- because they sucked MUCH more than Zellers ever did. And yet...Target will have $75 billion in gross revenue this year....Zellers...not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) And yet...Target will have $75 billion in gross revenue this year....Zellers...not so much. Target Canada lost billions. Zellers in Canada made a modest profit. Edited January 18, 2015 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 It is amazing to me that a company that could be so successful in their US operations could be so completely incompetent in their Canadian expansion. I hope that the local hobos will be able to keep the nice red plastic shopping carts. Compared to traditional carts, they're quieter, lighter, handle better in snowy conditions, have a larger capacity for cans and bottles, and they're less likely to scratch parked cars. And they have a sporty flair that seems to perk up the hobos. I think that these fine carts may end up being Target's most notable contribution to life in Kim City. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 It is amazing to me that a company that could be so successful in their US operations could be so completely incompetent in their Canadian expansion. I dealt with a major American retailer once, on the inside, and the operations people clearly were just benefitting from sitting on a gold mine. The people who run the show aren't the ones who built the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I dealt with a major American retailer once, on the inside, and the operations people clearly were just benefitting from sitting on a gold mine. The people who run the show aren't the ones who built the show. That's what they are suppose to do...is it different in Canada ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's what they are suppose to do...is it different in Canada ? Most definitely. You don't have a 10X giant on your doorstep moving in. Imagine a country of 3 billion people waiting to come in and move out Lowe's, WalMart, HomeDepot etc. Our businesses have to get better or die... or sell out too, also an option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 ....Our businesses have to get better or die... or sell out too, also an option Canadians expected to get an American Target, not a Canadian Target. They also want U.S. Netflix, Amazon, and Walmart. Tough crowd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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