Mighty AC Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Wow...now we know explicitly what Jesus H. Christ said...amazing ! Does it matter? Jesus was likely a myth to begin with and supposed followers cherry pick the messages they abide by anyway. So aren't we all really free to remake Jesus into a backer of our own desires. Like the Republican Jesus who advocates for the wealthy. Your own personal Jesus....reach out and touch faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 "In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God." (Romans 15:17) Other translations of kauchēsis in Romans 15:17 refer instead to "glory", "glorying", or "glorifying". For example: "Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God." Romans 15:17 (New International Version) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Other translations of kauchēsis in Romans 15:17 refer instead to "glory", "glorying", or "glorifying". For example:How is that different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 How is that different? In the Bible, glory or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) In the Bible, glory or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud.You're playing with semantics. In the Bible, pride is a good thing when it is pride in doing God's work, as cited. In 2 Cor 7, Paul says "Make room in your hearts for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. ...I have great pride in you; I am filled with comfort. In all our affliction, I am overflowing with joy" In 2 Corr 8.24, it is written "Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it." Finally, once again showing how Jesus hates it when you try to bring others down, it says "Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else." (Gal 6:4) In other words, take pride in your Good Work, for you are a child of God built in his image. Be true to Christ's teachings and avoid creating threads that misrepresent His Word. Edited January 16, 2015 by BubberMiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 In the Bible, glory or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud. In the KJV NT, "proud" is always (six times) translated from the Greek word "hyperēphanos", and is never considered good, as is evident in the six verses: "He hath showed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts." Luke 1:51 "Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents," Romans 1:30 "He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings," 1 Timothy 6:4 "For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy," 2 Timothy 3:2 "But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." James 4:6 "Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) In the KJV NT, "proud" is always (six times) translated from the Greek word "hyperēphanos"I've already conceded that pride, when it is haughty pride that makes one feel that they are superior to others, is always considered wrong in the Bible. In these instances, one is always called upon to be humble. For example, one may feel such pride when comparing himself to other sinners (like, say, homosexuals). Christ is clear that He believes this is wrong. But how are the examples I cited of pride in one's good work in the service of God considered wrong in the Bible? They are not, and you are trying to misrepresent God's words to suit your agenda. This is an unforgivable sin, but only God can judge you for it. Edited January 16, 2015 by BubberMiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 In the Bible, glory or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud. In the KJV NT, "pride" is found three times and is translated from the Greek words "hyperēphania", "typhoō", and "alazoneia", and is never considered good, as is evident in the three verses: "Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:" Mark 7:22 "Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil." 1 Timothy 3:6 "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." 1 John 2:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 In the KJV NT, "pride" is found three times and is translated from the Greek words "hyperēphania", "typhoō",You're just repeating yourself now. Explain to me how you interpret "pride" to be a negative thing in 2 Cor 7 when Paul says "Make room in your hearts for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. ...I have great pride in you; I am filled with comfort. In all our affliction, I am overflowing with joy" How is it bad in 2 Corr 8.24, where it says "Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it."? In Gal 6:4, it says "Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else." Is the satisfaction of a job well done not a sense of pride? Is that wrong in this context? In Romans 15: 16-17, Paul says "So I am proud of what I have done for God in Christ Jesus." Some may translate that to "glory", but it means the same thing. It doesn't mean "haughty, selfish pride" where one feels superior to others, which your citations all refer to. It is pride in being a child of God and His servant on this earth. So your sin was to boast pridefully that you are a superior Christian and to say that others are not real Christians. You would do well to achieve the grace of the Gay Pride folks, who are proud in a different way---proud about how God made them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 In 2 Cor 7, Paul says "Make room in your hearts for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. ...I have great pride in you; I am filled with comfort. In all our affliction, I am overflowing with joy" Other translations of kauchēsis in 2 Corinthians 7:4 refer to "glorying" or "glory" instead of "pride". For example: "Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation." (2 Corinthians 7:4, KJV) In 2 Corr 8.24, it is written "Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it." Other translations of kauchēsis in 2 Corinthians 8:24 refer to "glorying" instead of "pride". For example: "Show ye therefore unto them in the face of the churches the proof of your love, and of our glorying on your behalf." (2 Corinthians 8:24, ASV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) In Romans 15: 16-17, Paul says "So I am proud of what I have done for God in Christ Jesus." Some may translate that to "glory", but it means the same thing. In most Bible translations, glory, to glory, glorying or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud. Other translations of kauchēsis in Romans 15:17 refer instead to "glory", "glorying", or "glorifying". For example: "I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God." Romans 15:17 (KJV) Edited January 16, 2015 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Other translations of kauchēsis in 2 Corinthians 7:4 refer to "glorying" or "glory" instead of "pride". For example:Exactly. And since "glory" is a synonym of "pride" (as evidenced by the fact that the words are interchangeable in different translations), we agree that there are two types of pride: the bad, selfish pride that is always considered wrong in the Bible and that you displayed in the OP; and the good pride (or glory) in acknowledging one's place as a servant of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Exactly. And since "glory" is a synonym of "pride" (as evidenced by the fact that the words are interchangeable in different translations), we agree that there are two types of pride: the bad, selfish pride that is always considered wrong in the Bible and that you displayed in the OP; and the good pride (or glory) in acknowledging one's place as a servant of God. In most Bible translations, glory, to glory, glorying or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) In most Bible translations, glory, to glory, glorying or glorifying is mostly a good thing, unlike pride or being proud.Uh huh. The words were switched because many were confused between good pride and bad pride. We've already settled that. My point is that your pride in being a better Christian than others is bad pride while gay pride can be good pride. You may call that good pride "glory" if you wish. Get it now? Edited January 16, 2015 by BubberMiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Uh huh. The words were switched because many were confused between good pride and bad pride. We've already settled that. In the Greek NT, kauchēsis has mostly a positive connotation while hyperēphanos/hyperēphania has a negative connotation. One needs to wonder about Bible translations that translate kauchēsis as "pride" or "proud" when the majority of Bibles translate hyperēphanos/hyperēphania as "pride" or "proud". My point is that your pride in being a better Christian than others is bad pride ... I do not have "pride in being a better Christian" nor have I ever claimed to be "a better Christian". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I do not have "pride in being a better Christian" nor have I ever claimed to be "a better Christian". Sure you did. You judged yourself a Christian based on your limited interpretation of "pride"; then you judged those who disagree with your interpretation as not Christian. Christians believe Jesus Christ referred to pride as being an evil thing. As a result, endorsing, supporting, and/or celebrating pride does not include Christians (which is the point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 My point is that your pride in being a better Christian than others is bad pride ... Help Topic: Forum Rules and Guidelines. Be Polite and Respect Others Mapleleafweb operates these forums in the hopes that they will promote intelligent, honest and responsible discussion. We encourage you to speak your mind on relevant issues in a thoughtful way. Please respect others using this board and treat them with respect and dignity. No Trolling/Flaming Do not post inflammatory remarks just to annoy people. If you are not bringing anything new to the argument, then do not say anything at all. Some messages are not so much offensive as simply nuisance value. An example would be a person who persistently creates conflict without contributing anything useful. In newsgroup circles, such a person is known as a "troll". We define "trolling" as a message that serves no constructive purpose and is likely to cause offence or arguments. We define "annoying" as any message that results in a complaint from a registered user -- we will then decide whether to take action. No Personal Attacks Please respect others using this board by refraining from personal attacks. There is a huge difference between disagreeing with a thought or idea and attacking an individual. We encourage lively debate and intelligent critiques of others viewpoints, not tirades against another poster. [trimmed] Insults Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: play the ball, not the person (i.e. Tackle the argument, not the person making it). [trimmed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Sure you did. You judged yourself a Christian based on your limited interpretation of "pride"; then you judged those who disagree with your interpretation as not Christian. The quote you provided does not support your claim that I "judged" myself "a Christian". The quote you provided also does not support your claim that I "judged those who disagree with" my supposed "interpretation as not Christian". I interpreted "pride" in Mark 7:22 as meaning "pride". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The quote you provided also does not support your claim that I "judged those who disagree with" my supposed "interpretation as not Christian". You seem to be using some different definition for Christian. For my definition of a Christian, a Christian is someone who does not endorse, support, and/or celebrate judging others, and takes pride in their work for God. (Romans 15:17) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 The English Standard Version for Romans 15:17 states: "In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God." The English Standard Version for Luke 1:51 states: "He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;" The English Standard Version for 2 Timothy 3:2 states: "For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy," The English Standard Version for James 4:6 states: "But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, 'God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 The New Century Version for Romans 15:17 states: "So I am proud of what I have done for God in Christ Jesus." The New Century Version for Luke 1:51 states: "He has done mighty deeds by his power. He has scattered the people who are proud and think great things about themselves." The New Century Version for 1 Timothy 6:4 states: "This person is full of pride and understands nothing, but is sick with a love for arguing and fighting about words. This brings jealousy, fighting, speaking against others, evil mistrust," The New Century Version for 2 Timothy 3:2 states: "because people will love themselves, love money, brag, and be proud. They will say evil things against others and will not obey their parents or be thankful or be the kind of people God wants." The New Century Version for James 4:6 states: "But God gives us even more grace, as the Scripture says, 'God is against the proud, but he gives grace to the humble.'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Does that mean you acknowledge the difference between the definition of pride in Romans and the definiton in the others, so therefore pride can also be good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 It means that Bible translations such as the English Standard Version and the New Century Version confuse kauchēsis with hyperēphanos/hyperēphania by translating both kauchēsis and hyperēphanos/hyperēphania as pride or proud. In the Greek NT, kauchēsis has mostly a positive connotation while hyperēphanos/hyperēphania has a negative connotation. "... God is not the author of confusion, ..." (1 Corinthians 14:33) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) The English Standard Version for 2 Corinthians 7:4 states: "I am acting with great boldness toward you; I have great pride in you; I am filled with comfort. In all our affliction, I am overflowing with joy." The English Standard Version for Mark 7:20-23 states: "And he said, 'What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person." The English Standard Version for 1 John 2:16 states: "For all that is in the world - the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life - is not from the Father but is from the world." Edited January 17, 2015 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) The New International Version for 2 Corinthians 8:24 states: "Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it." The New International Version for Luke 1:51 states: "He has performed mighty deeds with his arm; he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts." The New International Version for 2 Timothy 3:2 states: "People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy," The New International Version for James 4:6 states: "But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: 'God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.'" The New International Version for 1 Peter 5:5 states: "Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, 'God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.'" Edited January 17, 2015 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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