socialist Posted January 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 This is anecdotal, and anyway I wasn't asking that. I was responding to an unclear point from another poster. Because it is anecdotal doesn't mean it isn't true. Did you personally see someone walk on the moon i the 60s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Because it is anecdotal doesn't mean it isn't true. Did you personally see someone walk on the moon i the 60s? That's not anecdotal. Anecdotal means the evidence is, basically, a story. It may be true or not true, but it's not enough evidence on its own for a claim here on MLW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If you are feeling stressed in your job in teaching then it is time to find a new career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If you are feeling stressed in your job in teaching then it is time to find a new career. He is not a teacher. But can anybody tell me a professional that does not have stress? Doctors,lawyers,teachers,etc,etc......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pct2017 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) So, here is what our poor, hard working teachers are having to endure at the school that one of my kids attends. After two plus weeks off for Christmas, they came back to work on January 5. In an almost inhumane manner, they had to work three straight weeks with only weekends off until this week. Then this Friday, Pro-ski day. Next week, the entire week is dedicated to something called Exam Week. So, in the five days, each teacher will have to be at school for a total of four hours plus of course, they will have to run the exams through the scantron for marking purposes. Then, like everyone else, they get Feb 9 off for Family Day. Then, the poor souls have to work six straight weeks at a full 5 days per week. How can this be, you ask. There must be relief from this. Well, wait, there is. After the six weeks, they get a two week Spring Break. So, let's summarize: Two weeks off for Christmas Work three weeks Work part week (Pro Ski Day) Basically get week off for Exam Week Work part week (Family Day) Work six weeks Get two weeks off for Spring Break Total of sixteen weeks in which they work 55 days out of the total of 76 workdays available (rendering out 4 stats), which the rest of us work. Yup, I would be pretty stressed if I had to admit to working that little. Edited January 27, 2015 by Pct2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 So, here is what our poor, hard working teachers are having to endure at the school ... Yup, I would be pretty stressed if I had to admit to working that little. Actually, it's not that much. We worked it out on another thread and it's a little over two weeks' advantage for the teachers on average, not factoring in: - experience of the teacher, ie. new teachers work more - type of teacher, ie. gym teachers and others may have less prep/after school time - vacation comparisons beyond a standard assumption But teachers work less than others on average, that was shown to me through that discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pct2017 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Actually, it's not that much. We worked it out on another thread and it's a little over two weeks' advantage for the teachers on average, not factoring in:- experience of the teacher, ie. new teachers work more- type of teacher, ie. gym teachers and others may have less prep/after school time- vacation comparisons beyond a standard assumptionBut teachers work less than others on average, that was shown to me through that discussion. Michael, I appreciate your unfaltering defence of all things teacher related, but the statement you made above is simply bumph. In essense, the core of your defence of teacher work hours must be that although they work about 37 less days per year than anyone else who gets four weeks vacation, you must presume that they work a great deal more hours per day than the average white collar employee. Sorry there partner, this is just simply not consistent with what I observe on the ground. If I am picking up my kid after school, I watch at least half of the teaching staff making their egress before my kid saunters out 20 minutes after the end of school. And, I am sorry but hours worked out of the workplace have to be diluted to no more than 50% of those spent on site. It is just human nature to watch some tube or check emails or surf the net whilst working at home. So, my friend, I would have to say that teachers work somewhere in the region of 18 - 20% less days or weeks or hours or nanoseconds or however you wish to measure it than other office related employees, but they complain somewhere in the region of 100% more often than those other workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Michael, I appreciate your unfaltering defence of all things teacher related... No... as I pointed out there was an exploration made on the other thread wherein we looked at these numbers. In essense, the core of your defence of teacher work hours must be that although they work about 37 less days per year than anyone else who gets four weeks vacation, you must presume that they work a great deal more hours per day than the average white collar employee. Go read the other thread and get back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/24100-ontario-teachers-potential-strike/page-9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 No... as I pointed out there was an exploration made on the other thread wherein we looked at these numbers. There was no evidence that I can recall. When I worked in the school system 8 years ago it was nothing like the numbers put forward in that thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 There was no evidence that I can recall. When I worked in the school system 8 years ago it was nothing like the numbers put forward in that thread. You're asking us to disregard cites for anecdotes, I think. If you read back to the beginning of the thread, Moonbox and I were talking about anecdotes until we agree on cites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Michael, I appreciate your unfaltering defence of all things teacher related, but the statement you made above is simply bumph. In essense, the core of your defence of teacher work hours must be that although they work about 37 less days per year than anyone else who gets four weeks vacation, you must presume that they work a great deal more hours per day than the average white collar employee. Sorry there partner, this is just simply not consistent with what I observe on the ground. If I am picking up my kid after school, I watch at least half of the teaching staff making their egress before my kid saunters out 20 minutes after the end of school. And, I am sorry but hours worked out of the workplace have to be diluted to no more than 50% of those spent on site. It is just human nature to watch some tube or check emails or surf the net whilst working at home. So, my friend, I would have to say that teachers work somewhere in the region of 18 - 20% less days or weeks or hours or nanoseconds or however you wish to measure it than other office related employees, but they complain somewhere in the region of 100% more often than those other workers. Micheal is right. After several posts back and forth we figured out it really is not a huge difference in time for teachers. I will even go further and it does limit when vacation can be taken due to the school year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Micheal is right. After several posts back and forth we figured out it really is not a huge difference in time for teachers. I will even go further and it does limit when vacation can be taken due to the school year. I accepted 2+ weeks as the number, although to be fair others said it was more... but in any case my mind was changed on the topic: teachers work fewer hours than the average worker. There. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pct2017 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I accepted 2+ weeks as the number, although to be fair others said it was more... but in any case my mind was changed on the topic: teachers work fewer hours than the average worker. There. OK, we will agree to disagree about the precise amount a teacher works less than other white collar workers as it is likely unprovable. But I believe we can all agree that teachers and their unions complain in a very public manner about their plight to a far, far greater extent than other groups. And, no, I do not have a website to reference, just a lifetime of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 But I believe we can all agree that teachers and their unions complain in a very public manner about their plight to a far, far greater extent than other groups. Most definitely. It's because they need to sway public opinion in order to achieve their goals. There would be no way to prove such a thing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Most definitely. It's because they need to sway public opinion in order to achieve their goals. There would be no way to prove such a thing anyway. If we don't have teacher unions looking out for the best interests of young learners, then we won't have a society worth anything. PCT and his baseless assumptions is what is wrong with this world. Teacher bashing is an art for people like PCT and Moonbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Posters on this board speak for themselves. Nobody speaks for Lawyers, nobody speaks for Doctors, nobody speaks for Teachers. Anyone who purports to do so is delusional and the mere fact that they attempt to do so should warn off serious posters from taking them seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 OK, we will agree to disagree about the precise amount a teacher works less than other white collar workers as it is likely unprovable. But I believe we can all agree that teachers and their unions complain in a very public manner about their plight to a far, far greater extent than other groups. And, no, I do not have a website to reference, just a lifetime of experience. Theres more to workplace stress than the hours you work. Iv never been a teach before, but I would find taking care of, being responsible for, and trying to educate 30 kids that arent yours to be pretty stressful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Theres more to workplace stress than the hours you work. Iv never been a teach before, but I would find taking care of, being responsible for, and trying to educate 30 kids that arent yours to be pretty stressful. Of course it is stressful. But being a professional in any job with responsibility has stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Of course it is stressful. But being a professional in any job with responsibility has stress. Having to present, though, and to be "on" all the time would take a lot of energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Having to present, though, and to be "on" all the time would take a lot of energy. As opposed to being a doctor,nurse,police officer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pct2017 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Most definitely. It's because they need to sway public opinion in order to achieve their goals. There would be no way to prove such a thing anyway. If by achieving their goals you mean insisting on less work for more money, then you have made a very true representation. As the teachers strike out here in BC highlighted, it is very much about those matters and not about the students. The BCTF never wavered from that mantra through the entire strike. Edited January 28, 2015 by Pct2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 If by achieving their goals you mean insisting on less work for more money, then you have made a very true representation. As the teachers strike out here in BC highlighted, it is very much about those matters and not about the students. The BCTF never wavered from that mantra through the entire strike. The teachers unions always cry about the students but immediately are calmed down when the teachers get more money in their pockets. Of course union are happy with smaller class sizes. Means more teachers and more union dues. Unions are as much of a business as law firms and advertising agencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pct2017 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Having to present, though, and to be "on" all the time would take a lot of energy. But that is my point about the duration of the workday and workyear. The actual stress that a teacher may feel has to relate to being in front of her class. Now imagine that teacher waking up on the first day of classes in September. She knows that she will be teaching in a classroom for 38 out of the next 52 weeks. And each week, the source of her "stress" will be limited to about 25 hours per week, unless they are now claiming that marking papers is also a source of life threatening stress. So, they only have to "on" for a very limited number of hours, not "all the time". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 As opposed to being a doctor,nurse,police officer? Or an NBA dunker,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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