Alberta Wildrose Merger With PC Party

[left_alberta]

Has there ever been a case of a party leader crossing the floor before?

Has there ever been a case of a party leader crossing the floor before?

There was that Wilson guy in BC in the 90s, who quit the Liberals and started his own party. He crossed over to the NDP.

But he was the only MLA representing that party, so it wasn't quite as earth-shattering as this WIldrose-Tory stuff is.

[overthere]

When Prentice introduced Bill 10, gutting the Liberal bill that protected GSAs,

It was Laurie Blakemans private members bill, and Bill 10 did not gut it.

What is did it give the Catholic boards a way out, and oblige a GSA that had a beef with a Catholic school board to take that board to court. That out is the only significant change from Blakemans bill,

It set the Bill up for a classic Charter challenge, and my guess is that the Supreme or any Court would ultimately strike down Bill 10. It is freedom of religion vs freedom from discrimantaion by sexual orientation. Another aspect to this is that the guaranteed right to a Catholic education in Alberta is part of the founding charter of the province, the Alberta Act.

The question is: why did Prentice withdraw the Bill just before it became law?

As a lawyer, he may have recognized that is is vulnerable to a Charter challenge and may wish to amend it to protect the Bill further. He may also be wondering if in fact the creation of GSAs actually has anything to do with the provision of a Catholic education.

As a poltician, he may be stepping back and reassessing the support for either course: passing Bill 10, or passing Blakemans bill.

I reckon he will correctly assess the impact and pass Blakemans bill.

The leadership of Catholics in Alberta is socially conservative, but mainstream Catholics are not.

[SpankyMcFarland]

She behaved badly here. Politics is a tough game but there are accepted ways of doing things. Leaders of the opposition don't cross the floor. She should have resigned and made her position clear first.

[left_alberta]

It was Laurie Blakemans private members bill, and Bill 10 did not gut it.

What is did it give the Catholic boards a way out, and oblige a GSA that had a beef with a Catholic school board to take that board to court. That out is the only significant change from Blakemans bill,

It set the Bill up for a classic Charter challenge, and my guess is that the Supreme or any Court would ultimately strike down Bill 10. It is freedom of religion vs freedom from discrimantaion by sexual orientation. Another aspect to this is that the guaranteed right to a Catholic education in Alberta is part of the founding charter of the province, the Alberta Act.

The question is: why did Prentice withdraw the Bill just before it became law?

As a lawyer, he may have recognized that is is vulnerable to a Charter challenge and may wish to amend it to protect the Bill further. He may also be wondering if in fact the creation of GSAs actually has anything to do with the provision of a Catholic education.

As a poltician, he may be stepping back and reassessing the support for either course: passing Bill 10, or passing Blakemans bill.

I reckon he will correctly assess the impact and pass Blakemans bill.

The leadership of Catholics in Alberta is socially conservative, but mainstream Catholics are not.

Yes, your description is more accurate, and detailed, than mine was.

In any case, my main point was that, contrary to the notion that it lines up as Tory Tolerance Vs. Wildrose Homophobia, there were actually more WIldrosers casting a vote in favour of GSAs than Tories. With the caveat that things might be different if it was a free-vote with a Wildrose majority in the legislature.

[left_alberta]

She behaved badly here. Politics is a tough game but there are accepted ways of doing things. Leaders of the opposition don't cross the floor. She should have resigned and made her position clear first.

The thing is, she is now pushing the line that she was essentially chased out of WIldrose by the social-conservative faction, who voted down the inclusive, pro-GLBQT language, in addition to other alleged harassment tactics, at the Red Deer convention.

Which, if true, might paint her actions in a more sympathetic light, since a leader can't very well be expected to stay on if a huge faction of the party is fundamentally opposed to her stance on issues like that. Problem is, her narrative doesn't really harmonize with some other known and implied facts of the matter, ie. Prentice says that they'd been negotiating since September, she wanted to merge the two parties(why, if she hates Wildrose's social views), etc.

[overthere]

there were actually more WIldrosers casting a vote in favour of GSAs than Tories.

The strongloy socially conservative faction in WR(which is all that remains now) oppose GSAs in all forms. The more conservative group in PC want Bill 10, which gives Catholic school boards an out.

But make no mistake, a large majority of Albertans including a majority of PCs want a liberal, inclusive GSA agreement.

she is now pushing the line that she was essentially chased out of WIldrose by the social-conservative faction, who voted down the inclusive, pro-GLBQT language,

I think this was certainly a factor... though she could have also tried to purge the hardcore socially conservative people from Wildrose. Smith knew for a couple of years why she lost an election that looked to be won, and how hard it was going to be to move her party to the middle. Red Deer was a bellwether for her, she realized that WR was unelectable. It could not be steered any further to the middle.

As I have noted, their momentum peaked in 2012 and it has been all downhill in real terms.

Once the PCs drafted Prentice, Smith and Wildrose were both toast.

[GostHacked]

All sounds like a replay of the REFOOOOOOOORM Party.

[overthere]

Reform and Wildrose started in the same province. Is that the same as a replay?

Reform essentially swallowed the federal PC party, moved strongly to the middle of the political spectrum, and the resultant creature has enjoyed running the country for a decade.

Wildrose is born and died in a few short years.

Some replay.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The oil crisis is going to bring about some dramatic changes in govt. policy in Alberta, probably including large tax increases. A party like Wildrose will have an opportunity to offer a different mix of responses, perhaps going more with spending cuts.

Prentice was impressive this am on The Current. There was implicit criticism of the fiscal management of the province since Lougheed's time.

[overthere]

The oil crisis is going to bring about some dramatic changes in govt. policy in Alberta, probably including large tax increases. A party like Wildrose will have an opportunity to offer a different mix of responses, perhaps going more with spending cuts.

Prentice was impressive this am on The Current. There was implicit criticism of the fiscal management of the province since Lougheed's time.

And how did the Current host treat him?

In the past they would actively and obviously hate anybody like him.

Last crisis, which was about 1993 and oil was <$20 barrel, a newly elected Klein whacked expenses hard.

Prentice luckily has either course open to him- he can afford(politically and economcially) to raise taxes, cut costs or do both. He'll do both I think.

There have been musings about a sales tax, inlcduing from Prentice lately, but I think he will first and foremost abandon the flat tax for the standard progressive tax. That alone would balance the budget with $40 oil.

[SpankyMcFarland]

And how did the Current host treat him?

In the past they would actively and obviously hate anybody like him.

Last crisis, which was about 1993 and oil was <$20 barrel, a newly elected Klein whacked expenses hard.

Prentice luckily has either course open to him- he can afford(politically and economcially) to raise taxes, cut costs or do both. He'll do both I think.

There have been musings about a sales tax, inlcduing from Prentice lately, but I think he will first and foremost abandon the flat tax for the standard progressive tax. That alone would balance the budget with $40 oil.

I thought she treated him pretty well - maybe a little flippant at the beginning but he did most of the talking.

[Bob Macadoo]

Well the people have spoken;

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/28/former-alberta-opposition_n_6962758.html

Looks like she's done with public life........but she didn't get any oil lobbyists owing her......what was the point?

Nice to see our democratic system allowed to function....

[Accountability Now]

Well the people have spoken;

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/28/former-alberta-opposition_n_6962758.html

Looks like she's done with public life........but she didn't get any oil lobbyists owing her......what was the point?

Nice to see our democratic system allowed to function....

I'm sure she'll end up being an 'advisor' somewhere. Just glad to see the people speak up they way they did. I can't stand when changes happen like this in between elections. If you want to switch then wait until the election so the people can have a say.

[Bob Macadoo]

I'm sure she'll end up being an 'advisor' somewhere. Just glad to see the people speak up they way they did. I can't stand when changes happen like this in between elections. If you want to switch then wait until the election so the people can have a say.

Seems like Prentice double-crossed her.......promised her a pot o' gold but took a major dump in her purse.....

[Accountability Now]

Seems like Prentice double-crossed her.......promised her a pot o' gold but took a major dump in her purse.....

I guess its a question of how much sway Prentice has in the Highwood region as ultimately its those PC members that chose not to elect her. I would like to think that is democracy speaking but maybe its not.

[Big Guy]

There is a lesson to be learned here - hear that Eve Adams?

[left_alberta]

I guess its a question of how much sway Prentice has in the Highwood region as ultimately its those PC members that chose not to elect her. I would like to think that is democracy speaking but maybe its not.

I seem to recall that Prentice did make some token endorsement of Smith, in one way or another.

As for him supposedly pulling one over on her, I suspected he probably didn't make any ironclad promises, but just allowed her to think that she was a shoe-in for the Tory nomination.

And maybe he even believed that himself. Right after Smith, Bikman, and Fox lost their nominations, Prentice intervened to ensure that Bruce McAllister's nomination went unchallenged. Possibly a sign that Prentice was unhappy about the other crossovers losing.

Edited April 4, 2015 by left_alberta

[Big Guy]

Smith will probably go down as making the worst political decision this century. Prentice has been forced to present a budget that is making the voters climb the walls. The good times are over and the PC's are ripe for picking. Meanwhile, the only viable alternative, the Wild Rose is somewhere in the woods looking for leadership. Projections are that the Wild Rose will do well in the next elections and could have challenged Prentice for power if it would have stayed intact.

I hear that Smith is probing the Wild Rose for forgiveness, absolution and re-switch.

[Bryan]

I know I shouldn't, but I feel bad for Smith. She took some really bad advice from an elder statesman of the conservative movement who should have known better.

The problem for Wildrose when it comes to forgiving Danielle, is they can't really do that without villainizing Preston Manning (unless he also admits his mistake an apologizes).

[left_alberta]

I know I shouldn't, but I feel bad for Smith. She took some really bad advice from an elder statesman of the conservative movement who should have known better.

The problem for Wildrose when it comes to forgiving Danielle, is they can't really do that without villainizing Preston Manning (unless he also admits his mistake an apologizes).

I don't think the Wildrose has much interest in forgiving Danielle. According to media reports, when it was announced at their convention that she had lost her nomination battle, the crowd cheered.

As for Manning, well, I'd imagine there is some unofficial taboo on the right about openly disparaging him, even if you ridicule the people who take his advice, since he is such a venerable figure. But his talents as a political operator have always been seriously exaggerated. He has always overestimated the desire among Canadians, even western Canadians, for the brand of conservativism that he is selling.

Edited April 5, 2015 by left_alberta