2 Hostages Killed in Yemen as U.S. Rescue Effort Fails - More Ineptnes

[jbg]

Yesterday, Al Qaeda of the Arabian Peninsula executed two hostages, one an American reporter (link to article). Many forget the botched raid under Carter's tutelage on Tabas, Iran, the Desert One fiasco. One has to wonder if the administrations are at fault. One possibility is that AQAP, ISIS and similar groups are not afraid of Obama. Certainly the mullahs in Iran were scared enough of Reagan that the hostages were freed, unharmed, minutes after his inauguration. Obama, like Carter, scares no one. Another possibility is that Carter and Obama so hamstring forces with rules of engagement that there is more concern for Arab and American life.

Excerpts from article:

SANA, Yemen — United States commandos stormed a village in southern Yemen early Saturday in an effort to free an American photojournalist held hostage by Al Qaeda, but the raid ended in tragedy, with the kidnappers killing the American and a South African held with him, United States officials said.

The hostages — Luke Somers, an American photojournalist, and Pierre Korkie, a South African teacher — were killed by their captors, militants from Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, when they realized the rescue effort was underway. President Obama said he had authorized the operation, led by about three dozen Navy SEAL Team 6 commandos, after concluding that Mr. Somers’s life was in “imminent danger.”

Again, I have no proof on this. But one also wonders, why isn't Israel asked to help? After all, they succeeded at Entebbe.

[Derek 2.0]

I've yet to see how this is a poor reflection on the Obama administration.......In my view, its far better they attempted a rescue and failed,than another beheading video produced......likewise, without hearing the operational facts, I think most would give the SEALS some leeway, they might not be perfect, but they're pretty damned close.

[GostHacked]

These guys can get Bin Laden but cannot rescue hostages?

[jbg]

I've yet to see how this is a poor reflection on the Obama administration.......In my view, its far better they attempted a rescue and failed,than another beheading video produced......likewise, without hearing the operational facts, I think most would give the SEALS some leeway, they might not be perfect, but they're pretty damned close.

The premium placed on saving Arab lives is a real problem.

[Wilber]

These are very risky operations. Some will be successful, others won't. TV and the movies have made expectations too high.

The Israelis don't bat 100% either.

[On Guard for Thee]

As understand from the news, Obama was presented with intel that said the American was to be executed the next day, so he made the decision to go give it a try. A Hard decision to make but I reckon I'd have down the same, based on the concept that some chance is better than none at all. Apparently the SA guy was about to be released the next day and I doubt we will ever know what if anything Obama knew of that. In any case it's a sad episode.

[jbg]

These are very risky operations. Some will be successful, others won't. TV and the movies have made expectations too high.

The Israelis don't bat 100% either.

My opinion was that the Israelis should have been asked. Then again I felt that way after the West Germans botched the rescue in the 1972 Olympic situation, maybe deliberately.

[Black Dog]

Yesterday, Al Qaeda of the Arabian Peninsula executed two hostages, one an American reporter (link to article). Many forget the botched raid under Carter's tutelage on Tabas, Iran, the Desert One fiasco. One has to wonder if the administrations are at fault.

Does one have any basis for these wonderings?

One possibility is that AQAP, ISIS and similar groups are not afraid of Obama. Certainly the mullahs in Iran were scared enough of Reagan that the hostages were freed, unharmed, minutes after his inauguration. Obama, like Carter, scares no one.

Question: are you really that ignorant of your own history or are you just trolling?

Another possibility is that Carter and Obama so hamstring forces with rules of engagement that there is more concern for Arab and American life.

Possibility or simply unhinged speculation by a Tea Partier who has lost his flock?

But one also wonders, why isn't Israel asked to help? After all, they succeeded at Entebbe.

Nachshon Wachsman ring a bell?

[Wilber]

My opinion was that the Israelis should have been asked. Then again I felt that way after the West Germans botched the rescue in the 1972 Olympic situation, maybe deliberately.

The Israelis have had their share of failures over the years. These operations are of the highest risk and the chances of success are often iffy going in, The fact they are doing it at all is because it is a last resort.. To expect every one of them to be successful is just not reasonable, whether it is the IDF, SAS, the Seals or anyone else doing the job.

You say it was botched. Maybe it never had a real chance but had to be tried anyway.

[Rue]

First off Israel has never and will never do joint commando rescue operations the same way the Navy Seals won't or SAS won't. Their training is not compatible with each other.

Secondly I agree with Derek better to have tried and failed than done nothing.

Thirdly no commando rescue operation is guaranteed a success, As some have stated Israel has not always been successful and Israel loaths them as much as the US or Britain or anyone else-they are risky, there are no guarantees, and anything can go wrong because the commando unit can not control the entire scenario-a slight change in any fact could destroy the feasibility of a mission.

Too easy to blame Obama on this one. I think he is an idiot myself, but on this one, at least someone tried. You win, you lose,but the effort might make someone think twice next time.

Now what I found insane was after this attack these morons from Al Quaeda responded with the line that they only wanted money-they would have never killed these guys, they just wanted money, why would the US do such a thing, they are not ISIL, they would have never cut off their heads, they were just demanding money.

Of course I mean how unreasonable to assume kidnappers asking for ransom were not really going to kill these guys as Al Quaeda said, thy were just negotiating.

The world of the Middle East is something many just will not understand. The very people who point a gun to someone's head really can moments after they are shot at and kill people see themselves as misunderstood and harmless.

Terrorists do not see themselves as terrorists. They see themselves as victims.

There will be a next time...or a time after that. This is not the first nor will it be the last such episode.

[Argus]

My opinion was that the Israelis should have been asked. Then again I felt that way after the West Germans botched the rescue in the 1972 Olympic situation, maybe deliberately.

Maybe once upon a time Israel had more experience than the US, but I would think that is gone after years of Afghanistan and Iraq.

It was a very high risk op, and one the terrorists were probably expecting. I mean, they had hit another safe house only a week earlier looking for this guy. Why did it fail? Dunno. Maybe an alert guard. I doubt that, in the real world, all the guards are lackadaisical or asleep like they are in the movies. Especially given the US had hit another place not even a week earlier. Uganda is hardly an example of extraordinary competence. The NYPD could have rescued the hostages from Uganda.

[Black Dog]

Maybe once upon a time Israel had more experience than the US, but I would think that is gone after years of Afghanistan and Iraq.

It was a very high risk op, and one the terrorists were probably expecting. I mean, they had hit another safe house only a week earlier looking for this guy. Why did it fail? Dunno. Maybe an alert guard. I doubt that, in the real world, all the guards are lackadaisical or asleep like they are in the movies. Especially given the US had hit another place not even a week earlier. Uganda is hardly an example of extraordinary competence. The NYPD could have rescued the hostages from Uganda.

Apparently, it was a dog.

[jbg]

Apparently, it was a dog.

Maybe the rules of engagement prevent cruelty to animals, such as taking out the dog with a silencer-equipped gun. Remember this White House's Secret Service was too pantywaist to unleash their dogs against a fence-jumper, who was not tackled until he got inside the East Room.

[guyser]

First off Israel has never and will never do joint commando rescue operations the same way the Navy Seals won't or SAS won't. Their training is not compatible with each other.

Hmmm......http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sas-special-forces-forming-hunter-4097083 <--SAS, UK and Seals all in a joint commando operation.

And for the second time too !

[On Guard for Thee]

Hmmm......http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sas-special-forces-forming-hunter-4097083 <--SAS, UK and Seals all in a joint commando operation.

And for the second time too !

The recent Yemen attempt was a combination of Seals and Yemeni Special Forces as well. I think they did one together back in November as well.

[overthere]

President Obama said he had authorized the operation, led by about three dozen Navy SEAL Team 6 commandos, after concluding that Mr. Somers’s life was in “imminent danger.”

And he was right.

The only reason the Israelis were involved with the raid at Entebbe was that nearly all the remaining hostages were from Israel.

Why would they have any interest in this raid in Yemen?

[Derek 2.0]

Maybe the rules of engagement prevent cruelty to animals, such as taking out the dog with a silencer-equipped gun. Remember this White House's Secret Service was too pantywaist to unleash their dogs against a fence-jumper, who was not tackled until he got inside the East Room.

Nope, the SEALS carry suppressed Ruger Mk. IIs for killing dogs........

[jbg]

Nope, the SEALS carry suppressed Ruger Mk. IIs for killing dogs........

Are they useful on attack-trained Golden Retrievers? Edited December 9, 2014 by jbg

[Derek 2.0]

Hmmm......http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sas-special-forces-forming-hunter-4097083 <--SAS, UK and Seals all in a joint commando operation.

And for the second time too !

This is true, but nearly all NATO members (and the ANZACS) cross pollinate with one another.......Our JTF-2 and CSOR train and deploy with Delta Force, the Green Beret and Rangers on a regular basis, well being equipped with nearly the exact same gear as them, despite in many cases the regular (Canadian) force using different equipment.

What is not clear from Rue's post is if his intent was to suggest that Western Forces don't train with the IDF, which is largely true.

[Derek 2.0]

Are they useful on attack-trained Golden Retrievers?

Sure......dependent on distance, they would be useful against a man........

[Black Dog]

Maybe the rules of engagement prevent cruelty to animals, such as taking out the dog with a silencer-equipped gun. Remember this White House's Secret Service was too pantywaist to unleash their dogs against a fence-jumper, who was not tackled until he got inside the East Room.

It was probably the Obamas dog, Bo, that gave them away amirite?

[guyser]

This is true, but nearly all NATO members (and the ANZACS) cross pollinate with one another

Without even looking I would think most people would know this.

What is not clear from Rue's post is if his intent was to suggest that Western Forces don't train with the IDF, which is largely true.

Oh thats easy.....'have never and will never' mean exactly that.Except its pretty ridiculous to say for anyone paying attention. For whatever reason he put that down only he knows.......and no one will ever know why.

[Derek 2.0]

Oh thats easy.....'have never and will never' mean exactly that.Except its pretty ridiculous to say for anyone paying attention. For whatever reason he put that down only he knows.......and no one will ever know why.

My thoughts exactly, the post did seem unclear, I can only assume what Rue meant.

[Rue]

This is true, but nearly all NATO members (and the ANZACS) cross pollinate with one another.......Our JTF-2 and CSOR train and deploy with Delta Force, the Green Beret and Rangers on a regular basis, well being equipped with nearly the exact same gear as them, despite in many cases the regular (Canadian) force using different equipment.

What is not clear from Rue's post is if his intent was to suggest that Western Forces don't train with the IDF, which is largely true.

Thank you Derek. You of course are dead on, the elite forces may cross pollinate for sure, but and you can correct me but what I should be crystal clear on is the US will not use another country's commandos in a joint operation if it does not involve that other country's citizens as well when its a citizen rescue mission not a mission to take out a building or railway or some logistics site.

The only country that will save citizens other than their own is Israel if they are Jewish. Otherwise there is a complex protocol designed not to embarass the sovereignty of a nation whose citizen is being rescued.

If for example Israel saved US citizens, it could embarass the US and make them look like they needed someone else's help.

The joint commando exercises are for mutual interest missions, i.e., where citizens of the different nations are involved or inanimate objects.

Rescue missions are a matter of the nation of the citizen unless they ask for help. The US or Britain would not if it simply to rescue their own citizens-if there would be help it would not be admitted and would be indirect. Elite commandos have to be trained together even if they come from different units. They have to have some training together before they can go on a rescue mission depending on one another.

There are differences in SAS, SEALS, British Marines, the German elite force, the many Israeli elite forces with hand signals, code words, movement. Its one thing to do a strategic attack on a building or buildings or logistics, its another with civilians.

Thank you for the comment Derek.

Gusyer you have a problem ask. Your insipid comments only make you look like you are trying to make it personal.

[Derek 2.0]

There are differences in SAS, SEALS, British Marines, the German elite force, the many Israeli elite forces with hand signals, code words, movement. Its one thing to do a strategic attack on a building or buildings or logistics, its another with civilians.

Thank you for the comment Derek.

Nearly all modern, Western Special Forces units (including IDF forces) trace a linage back to the British Special Air Service and Special Boat Service.....The SAS/SBS are the benchmark in which all others are judged and if one goes back into a modern force's (SEALS, JTF-2, GSG-9 etc) inception, members of the British SAS/SBS were present.......The initial IDF units were very much so modeled (and partially staffed by veterans) of the SAS/LRDG.......