msj Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I think we've been here. It's been a long time since we have been here: Saudi and Iran going at each other which is the goal of this agreement. Divide and conquer. Obama did it to win the presidency and he has done it here too. Let's hope Hilary, Trump, or whoever comes next (Romney?) don't screw it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Not sure what you're on about, but Iran has already violated Obama's "agreement" with its new ICBM tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'm on about the real reason to become less friendly with Saudi and a little bit friendly with Iran: to have them go at each other while the US gains energy independence and can focus on its own priorities rather than feed the terrorist making machines in the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 ICBMs have only one function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'm on about the real reason to become less friendly with Saudi and a little bit friendly with Iran: to have them go at each other while the US gains energy independence and can focus on its own priorities rather than feed the terrorist making machines in the Middle East. Even if the goal was to pit Iran against Saudi Arabia, I fail to see how that helps us at all, other than creating more chaos in the M.E which is forcing people out in large number that are flooding Europe and abroad. Nothing has been learned at all here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 ICBMs have only one function. Actually two functions. 1 - destruction 2 - deterrent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 more than 2/3 reduction in uranium enrichment and shutdown of water facilities in arak supposedly used for plutonium grade weapon was enough to convince the IAEA. And the rest of the world...but then again what would one expect from certain corners of republican hawks and Netanyahoo scratching their a.. by shifting the goal post and futile attempst to derail the agreement?? Nothing....They just try to sensationalise the news to win votes of the local sheeps at home that follow their cause regardless of the reality. The reality is you can never please everyone and the fact that the rest of the civilised world hails such diplomacy shows you are outnumbered. That''s democracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Actually two functions. 1 - destruction 2 - deterrent Namely carrying nuclear warheads. The CEP on Iranian missiles is in the 2km range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 more than 2/3 reduction in uranium enrichment and shutdown of water facilities in arak supposedly used for plutonium grade weapon was enough to convince the IAEA. And the rest of the world...but then again what would one expect from certain corners of republican hawks and Netanyahoo scratching their a.. by shifting the goal post and futile attempst to derail the agreement?? Nothing....They just try to sensationalise the news to win votes of the local sheeps at home that follow their cause regardless of the reality. The reality is you can never please everyone and the fact that the rest of the civilised world hails such diplomacy shows you are outnumbered. That''s democracy! Again...Iran has already violated said sacred treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 It's been a long time since we have been here: Saudi and Iran going at each other which is the goal of this agreement. Divide and conquer. Obama did it to win the presidency and he has done it here too. Let's hope Hilary, Trump, or whoever comes next (Romney?) don't screw it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Low oil prices make both Iran and Saudi weaker while making the US stronger (unfortunately it also helps China but at least it weakens Russia so that's a draw). If Saudi and Iran were to go at each other maybe it would mean they and their proxies would not be trying to undermine us in the west. Better to have suicide bombers attack Tehran and Meccah ( hell, even Istanbul and Jakarta) than Paris or New York. Let them fight amongst themselves like any religious reformation needs to cleanse itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Low oil prices make both Iran and Saudi weaker while making the US stronger (unfortunately it also helps China but at least it weakens Russia so that's a draw). If Saudi and Iran were to go at each other maybe it would mean they and their proxies would not be trying to undermine us in the west. Better to have suicide bombers attack Tehran and Meccah ( hell, even Istanbul and Jakarta) than Paris or New York. Let them fight amongst themselves like any religious reformation needs to cleanse itself. Enquiring minds like to know how the oil price of $30 or lower per barrel will help the US? Short term effects are buying cheaper oils but it is foolish to oversight the delationary effect on other commodities... Edited January 17, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Again...Iran has already violated said sacred treaty.The sanctions imposed on Iran are a bit more than your opinionated one liner...as far as nuclear bit is concerned they are lifted whether you like it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 The sanctions imposed on Iran are a bit more than your opinionated one liner...as far as nuclear bit is concerned they are lifted whether you like it or not No matter how huffy you get, Iran still violated the magic treaty by shooting off its new ICBM design and testing re-entry shrouds. That was a no-no. But, let's ignore that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 No matter how huffy you get, Iran still violated the magic treaty by shooting off its new ICBM design and testing re-entry shrouds. That was a no-no. But, let's ignore that. We can ignore Saudi Arabia's atrocities too. As long as we can sell them 15 B in weapons. Sounds like a good move right? No chance of backlash there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 We can ignore Saudi Arabia's atrocities too. As long as we can sell them 15 B in weapons. Sounds like a good move right? No chance of backlash there? Like I'm pals with SA. Iran violated the magic treaty. This is something you'll have to accept. Or does incredulity cloud your vision? What a question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 No matter how huffy you get,That's a bit rich coming from you doggy...!Iran still violated the magic treaty by shooting off its new ICBM design and testing re-entry shrouds. That was a no-no. But, let's ignore that. Indeed, let's ignore that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Indeed, let's ignore that You already have. Still, Iran violated the very treaty being held up as peace in our time right smartly. Like it wasn't even there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Like I'm pals with SA. Iran violated the magic treaty. This is something you'll have to accept. Or does incredulity cloud your vision? What a question! You have this tendency to go off topic. The sanctions are lifted. Obviously that doesn't pkease you and your pals in the israeli cabinet. That's tough! Get used to it. Like it was said earlier the diplomacy worked so don't try stir it it otherwise the smell will suffocate. Edited January 17, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 You already have. Getting personal now are we?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 You have this tendency to go off topic. The sanctions are lifted. Obviously that doesn't pkease you and yoyr pals in the israeli cabinet. That's tough! Get used to it. Like it was said earlier the dimplomacy worked so don't try stir it it otherwise the smell will suffocate. Your enmity for the Jews isn't my problem. We're talking about the treaty Iran signed...and them promptly broke. Very much on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Better to have suicide bombers attack Tehran and Meccah ( hell, even Istanbul and Jakarta) than Paris or New York. Let them fight amongst themselves like any religious reformation needs to cleanse itself. So much for a compassion on human lives...is that how low we have stooped with this mindset!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Your enmity for the Jews isn't my problem.Bull crap. Don't even bother playing that game. Doesn't work...We're talking about the treaty Iran signed...and them promptly broke. Very much on topic.Like I said eatlier there's nothing to satisfy your apetite to see this derail..it iis blatantly clear that fundamentally you have a problem with the efforts this administration is putting to make the diplomacy work between the US and Iran and will always reveal another card to prove your point... Edited January 17, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Enquiring minds like to know how the oil price of $30 or lower per barrel will help the US? Short term effects are buying cheaper oils but it is foolish to oversight the delationary effect on other commodities... Low commodity prices are bad for Canada but are fine for the US. Americans are better off keeping their money to spend on things they would like to spend it on rather than pay it to foreigners for overpriced oil or other commodities. Same with China. The shale revolution is great because it leads to US energy independence so then they have less reason to interfere in the ME. The players in the ME can fight with each other as they will do if the price of oil remains low. This is a huge win/win for the west and it is too bad some people are blind to it and really too bad that China also benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 So much for a compassion on human lives...is that how low we have stooped with this mindset!?! It's too bad but better them to kill each other than to kill us. For that matter, better for us not to be killing them in yet another war. Not my problem if they can't get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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