School Shooting in America

[cybercoma]

And I would say it's not really that easy. Where would one even start to look? Talk to the Hells Angels at your local titty bar?

If you live in a state or country that doesn't require you to lock up fire arms and ammunition and you have people carrying them around wherever they go or leaving them in their cars, etc....they're a hell of a lot easier to find in countries where pretty much only people who hunt own them, keep them trigger locked inside a locked cabinet with their ammo locked in another box somewhere else.

The availability of firearms is an important point people seem to miss when they say "criminals will get their hands on them anyway through the black market." The black market is supplied easier when guns are widely owned and there's little regulation around securing them.

[Derek 2.0]

The p3d printed guns fear is unwarranted. There are only a few thousand 3d printers out there. Only a small number are being used to print plastic guns that fall apart after a couple shots.

Well I don't deny 3D-guns (and printers) are in their infancy, like all technology, it will progress........As to their durability, again, bolts and barrels can be replaced (by easily obtained parts online or by just printing another one), none the less, if someone is intent on using one, to they really need a gun that will last 10K+ shots?

Even if you put all the laws in place, one can still easily acquire a gun through illegal means.

To some degree, but safe storage will reduce both household accidents (among children) and petty theft, adding to the guns found on the black market.

[Derek 2.0]

The availability of firearms is an important point people seem to miss when they say "criminals will get their hands on them anyway through the black market." The black market is supplied easier when guns are widely owned and there's little regulation around securing them.

The number of guns, when secured, doesn't mater........My ~60 firearms are safer than a person that owns one and keeps it loaded in their dresser drawer.

But I largely agree, in Canada, the vast majority of crime guns, in part due to safe storage laws, are smuggled into the country since legally stored firearms are harder to steal and we require licensing (the omnibus background check).

[cybercoma]

The number of guns, when secured, doesn't mater........My ~60 firearms are safer than a person that owns one and keeps it loaded in their dresser drawer.

But I largely agree, in Canada, the vast majority of crime guns, in part due to safe storage laws, are smuggled into the country since legally stored firearms are harder to steal and we require licensing (the omnibus background check).

That's why I'm largely ok with out laws. I still think there should be a registry to make tracking missing or stolen guns a lot easier, but that's about all I would change.

[Derek 2.0]

That's why I'm largely ok with out laws. I still think there should be a registry to make tracking missing or stolen guns a lot easier, but that's about all I would change.

And that is a non-starter.......First and foremost, by precedent, most gun owners fear the registry is just a list of guns to take by the Government (as various guns during the LGR were).........Also, in tracking stolen guns, despite what is claimed, its of little use......As I've said before, most gun made pre 1968 didn't have serial numbers and those with them, if stolen can easily be taken off with a file.

And of course, as mentioned, most crime guns are smuggled in from the United States......a registry wouldn't address that.

With Canada's laws, if you wanted to address a great number of the suicides, accidents and murders done with legally obtained firearms, in my view, you would require the same standards/screening for "regular gun owners", among the First Nations, were a member just needs a letter from the chief/elders stating a need for hunting.........Of course, I feel politically, that has the potential for becoming a third rail.

[On Guard for Thee]

I think if you asked most cops, when they are responding to a domestic call they would love to be able to consult a registry to see if there are guns at the address.

[cybercoma]

And that is a non-starter.......First and foremost, by precedent, most gun owners fear the registry is just a list of guns to take by the Government (as various guns during the LGR were).........Also, in tracking stolen guns, despite what is claimed, its of little use......As I've said before, most gun made pre 1968 didn't have serial numbers and those with them, if stolen can easily be taken off with a file.

And of course, as mentioned, most crime guns are smuggled in from the United States......a registry wouldn't address that.

With Canada's laws, if you wanted to address a great number of the suicides, accidents and murders done with legally obtained firearms, in my view, you would require the same standards/screening for "regular gun owners", among the First Nations, were a member just needs a letter from the chief/elders stating a need for hunting.........Of course, I feel politically, that has the potential for becoming a third rail.

you have to register pets, cars, and trailers, but as soon as you talk about registering fire arms, people lose their minds.

[Derek 2.0]

I think if you asked most cops, when they are responding to a domestic call they would love to be able to consult a registry to see if there are guns at the address.

I know that cops that assume there is no danger on a call, regardless of a registry, don't last as cops too long......

[On Guard for Thee]

I know that cops that assume there is no danger on a call, regardless of a registry, don't last as cops too long......

Exactly. You have just enhanced my argument.

[Derek 2.0]

you have to register pets, cars, and trailers, but as soon as you talk about registering fire arms, people lose their minds.

Indeed, but then, there isn't they same level of political action attempting to ban pets, cars and trailers......

[Derek 2.0]

Exactly. You have just enhanced my argument.

Do you think if police are called to a crack house, and a registry tells them there are no guns inside, they assume all is well?

[On Guard for Thee]

Do you think if police are called to a crack house, and a registry tells them there are no guns inside, they assume all is well?

Do you think if cops are called to a non-crack house to respond to a domestic and they discover via the registry there are a number of guns there, they will not take extra precautions?

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you think if police are called to a crack house, and a registry tells them there are no guns inside, they assume all is well?

Yup...I was thinking the same thing. Police are trained to respond with the assumption that a gun or guns are always possible at the scene, regardless of what is recorded in some silly ass gun registry. Teams for high threat entry are assembled and briefed before the warrant is executed.

Edited October 27, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

Indeed, but then, there isn't they same level of political action attempting to ban pets, cars and trailers......

Non sequitur and possibly a strawman. Calling for a registry has nothing to do with banning guns.

[Derek 2.0]

Do you think if cops are called to a non-crack house to respond to a domestic and they discover via the registry there are a number of guns there, they will not take extra precautions?

The police respond exactly the same, to any calls of violence, regardless of a gun registry..........

[Derek 2.0]

Yup...I was thinking the same thing. Police are trained to respond with the assumption that a gun or guns are always possible at the scene, regardless of what is recorded in some silly ass gun registry. Teams for high threat entry are assembled and briefed before the warrant is executed.

Exactly, the police don't lower their guard when entering a crackhouse because the registry came back clean.........

[Derek 2.0]

Non sequitur and possibly a strawman. Calling for a registry has nothing to do with banning guns.

Yet, those calling for a registry want to ban certain guns.......and have in the past.

[cybercoma]

Yet, those calling for a registry want to ban certain guns.......and have in the past.

Is it not the RCMP that decides what guns should and should not be banned?

[On Guard for Thee]

The police respond exactly the same, to any calls of violence, regardless of a gun registry..........

I find that a little, no, a lot far fetched.

But to go back to what Cyber has aptly pointed out, if you go buy a trailer to haul your boat around on, you have to register it. How many high school students do you recall being killed by a boat trailer?

[On Guard for Thee]

Yup...I was thinking the same thing. Police are trained to respond with the assumption that a gun or guns are always possible at the scene, regardless of what is recorded in some silly ass gun registry. Teams for high threat entry are assembled and briefed before the warrant is executed.

Warrant? Not required in Canada to respond to a domestic violence complaint.

[Smallc]

Still, Canadian police assume that weapons are present at all times. To do otherwise would be foolish.

[On Guard for Thee]

So what d'ya reckon US police are faced with? Oh yeah, they have the suggestions from the NRA about gun safety to keep them safe. yuk yuk.

[cybercoma]

Still, Canadian police assume that weapons are present at all times. To do otherwise would be foolish.

BS they do. You tell someone that a person has a gun on someone and the police response is vastly different from them just showing up at a house because two people are arguing.

[cybercoma]

What happens when the police constantly assume people are armed and dangerous is what you see in the US with their overaggressive responses to mundane things.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah...because we never see "overaggressive" responses by polizia in other nations, including Canada. U.S. citizens have constitutional gun rights, and lots of guns. Police officer training recognizes this reality...."GUN !!! "