TimG Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Plunking down one of the largest military bases in Iraq kind of tells me otherwise.The US handed those bases over to the Iraqi government along with billions in equipment. Even before they were handed over the US acknowledged that sovereignty of the territory belonged to the Iraq government. There is no comparison between military actions in failed states and Chinese annexation of territory of its neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The US handed those bases over to the Iraqi government along with billions in equipment. Even before they were handed over the US acknowledged that sovereignty of the territory belonged to the Iraq government. There is no comparison between military actions in failed states and Chinese annexation of territory of its neighbors. Kind of off topic but they did not give them to the Iraq military. It was left behind with the notion of being too expensive to ship back to the US. The reason those states failed is mainly because of military intervention. Those conflicts were about resources and the control of the money/currency in which those resources are traded. Once you strip away the false notion of these conflicts being about freedom, then you start to understand why it is happening. The real reasons are economic. That is why BRICS formed, and that is why we see OPEC nations colluding to keep the price of oil low. The BRICS is already proving that competition in a global market is key. They formed and the result was to drop the price of oil so low that it puts a wrench into the BRICS plans. This also shows how artificially inflated the price of oil is to begin with. I am just wondering when more than just the price of gas comes down. I know that is just wishful thinking. Also things like the USAs economic crisis in 2008 wrecked complete economies of some nations sending them into turmoil. That is just as bad as military intervention. The thing is that the Russians (specifically) don't sugar coat why they are doing it. They don't seem to lie about it. Sure it does not make it right, but you at least know what to expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) The BRICS is already proving that competition in a global market is key.The BRICS are joke. It is nothing but a random grouping of countries coined by some wall street analyst. What you do have is China which has considerable real economic power. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing, however, the problems come up because of China's territorial aggression. If it does not stop it will likely lead to war between major powers. What it also means is countries near China are looking to the US for leadership and help because, for all of its faults, the US/European model of many countries collaborating internationally is much more palatable than the neo-colonial attitude of the Chinese where "lessers" are expected to cowtow to whims of Chinese despots. Edited December 2, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The BRICS are joke. It is nothing but a random grouping of countries coined by some wall street analyst. What you do have is China which has considerable real economic power. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing, however, the problems come up because of China's territorial aggression. If it does not stop it will likely lead to war between major powers. What it also means is countries near China are looking to the US for leadership and help because, for all of its faults, the US/European model of many countries collaborating internationally is much more palatable than the neo-colonial attitude of the Chinese where "lessers" are expected to cowtow to whims of Chinese despots. The wars have already started. The BRICS is not a joke. Wall Street and the NYSE tied into the UK/Europe exchanges are a joke. Who else but the US government would give a 250 billion dollar welfare check to failing financial systems that took advantage of deregulation. No the US/Euro model is not sustainable. The crash of 2008 proved that. Banks colluded behind the scenes for price/rate fixing. The game is rigged and will crash eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Who else but the US government would give a 250 billion dollar welfare check to failing financial systems that took advantage of deregulation.The US is a island of financial stability compared to over-leveraged mess in China right now. You just don't he about it because, unlike the US where free press is the norm, the Chinese despots keep a lid on how bad the problem is. No the US/Euro model is not sustainable. The crash of 2008 proved that.2008 was a blip. There was a problem the US/European model dealt with it. There are many concerns about the future but I have more confidence in free market democracies with a free press than with any totalitarian regime. Edited December 2, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The US is a island of financial stability compared to over-leveraged mess in China right now. Yes because it did buy up some of the USA's debt load. You just don't he about it because, unlike the US where free press is the norm, the Chinese despots keep a lid on how bad the problem is. Pundits on TV take up the slack trying to tell us it is stable. 2008 was a blip. There was a problem the US/European model dealt with it. There are many concerns about the future but I have more confidence in free market democracies with a free press than with any totalitarian regime. Such a blip we are still not out of the crisis after 4 years. It is not a free market when large banks are rigging the system in their favour. And they got a bail out for it and paid themselves big bonuses. Why are cities going bankrupt? Why are pension funds drying up? Why are homes being foreclosed on? Why are small businesses not thriving? Why are big corporations failing? Why are some cutting back on expected growth? It's not sustainable for one. The confidence in this 'free market' is just a ruse when there is collusion going on behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 The trouble is China is an expansionary power keen on annexing the territory of its neighbors. It has already stolen islands from Viet Nam and the Philippines and threatens to take over many others. But the biggest barrier to China becoming a trusted partner in global security is Taiwan. China is telling the world that it is an untrustworthy, immature bully as long as China threatens Taiwan with invasion if Taiwan chooses to declare independence. Good neighbors respect the sovereignty of its neighbors for the sake of peace. China, so far, has indicated that its nationalist ego is more important than peace and security. First off, I believe the disputed islands were just that, disputed. Meaning that China has a legitimate claim. Or at least a claim. That's as far as I can comment on this and am not aware of any resolutions without further researching. Only thing I can add is that for sure there are islands disputed with Japan. And I wouldn't be surprised if there are other disputed territories with other countries. And as a side not, many countries have disputed territories INCLUDING CANADA! Nothing new to human territorial borders. As far as Taiwan goes, it's just a smaller province not worth jeopardizing the growth/strength of the #1 economy in the world. Did China invade Hong Kong or Macau? Why invade when time will heal wounds and resolve differences? If anything, China has clearly proven they are solid! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Apples and Oranges. Western intervention is never to annex all or part of country. It is only to stop/prevent violence LOL!!! Ya right! Let the violence orgy begin with every US/NATO invasion! Man you must thing nobody ever watches the news about whats happening after the US invades. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 The US is a island of financial stability compared to over-leveraged mess in China right now. You just don't he about it because, unlike the US where free press is the norm, the Chinese despots keep a lid on how bad the problem is. 2008 was a blip. There was a problem the US/European model dealt with it. There are many concerns about the future but I have more confidence in free market democracies with a free press than with any totalitarian regime. LOL! When you say the US economy, you NOW MEAN the #2 economy! That's what YOU want to keep a lid on! Isn't it convenient for you to say that the Chinese government is secretive, but the western ones are open. In other words, don't believe them, believe us because they lie. They're bad, but we're good. Oh and by the way, WE"RE going out of the way now to kiss China's ass! It must drive you bezerko watching Harper going to China every other month to sign more deals! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) First off, I believe the disputed islands were just that, disputed. Meaning that China has a legitimate claim. Or at least a claim.ROTFL - China just decided it wanted the islands. Fabricated a claim and started taking them over. So far it has taken islands from Vietnam and the Philippines and is engaged endless provocations over the Japanese islands. It has other disputes with every other country it borders. As far as Taiwan goes, it's just a smaller province not worth jeopardizing the growth/strength of the #1 economy in the world.If Taiwan is so insignificant why does Beijing throw a fit if any other country recognize Taiwan for what it is: a sovereign country? If the people in Beijing were adults they would know that the have nothing to lose by letting Taiwan do whatever it wants. But there are few adults in Beijing - just a lot of children. Edited December 5, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Nice BRICS debate diversion. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 This week China's economy surged ahead the USA. Writing was on the wall for years and now it's official. This milestone may trigger something? Maybe no? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 The BRICS are joke. It is nothing but a random grouping of countries coined by some wall street analyst. What you do have is China which has considerable real economic power. #1. China #3. India #6. Russia #7. Brazil #30. South Africa Former G7 #2. USA #4 Japan #5 Germany #8 France #10 Britain #12 Italy #15 Canada Other Notables #9 Indonesia #11 Mexico #13 S.Korea #14 Saudia Arabia So where's the Joke??????? You know what buddy, at this rate, come ten years, the JOKE is going to get funnier and funnier! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 This week China's economy surged ahead the USA. Writing was on the wall for years and now it's official. This milestone may trigger something? Maybe no? WWWTT Would this be the same economy where income per person just barely ranks in the bottom of the top 100 counties in the world? The same economy that affords it's people about 1/10th of the buying power of US citizens? That is comparable in vbuying power to the Phillipines, Bolivia, and Iraq? That economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Would this be the same economy where income per person just barely ranks in the bottom of the top 100 counties in the world? The same economy that affords it's people about 1/10th of the buying power of US citizens? That is comparable in vbuying power to the Phillipines, Bolivia, and Iraq? That economy? Not sure what the average wage is in China? Don't really care either. But I do know that the Chinese government is focused on increasing it! Also know that this statistic was never very important before China became the #1 world economic super power. Sounds like sour grapes, lets change the rules now to me. Was that how the G7, G8 and G20 was determined? By the ranking of averages incomes????? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Not sure what the average wage is in China? Don't really care either. But I do know that the Chinese government is focused on increasing it! Also know that this statistic was never very important before China became the #1 world economic super power. Sounds like sour grapes, lets change the rules now to me. Was that how the G7, G8 and G20 was determined? By the ranking of averages incomes????? WWWTT That statistic is probably still quite important if you're an average Chinese worker. Maybe now they have some money in the bank, the government will move away from totalitarianism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 That statistic is probably still quite important if you're an average Chinese worker. Maybe now they have some money in the bank, the government will move away from totalitarianism. And what does that have to do with BRICS? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Not sure what the average wage is in China? Don't really care either. Really ? You seemed to support Occupy in this thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19640-occupy/?p=720039 China is by most measures more unequal than Canada, Europe or the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality But I do know that the Chinese government is focused on increasing it! How do you "know" that ? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/28/china-more-unequal-richer China is becoming more unequal as it gets richer, with about a third of the country's wealth now concentrated in the hands of 1% of its citizens, according to new research. That article is from July 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 It appears that the members of BRICS intend to support each other to their benefit; http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/12/india-build-nuclear-reactors-with-russia-2014121110318518210.html Russia and India have closed a deal for Russia to build 10 new nuclear reactors for India. Hey, doesn't Canada also build nuclear reactors? I believe that those silly sanctions that Canada has placed on Russia are a mistake and are going to cost us plenty. Time for Canada to look elsewhere besides the USA for partnerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 The USA has no problem getting contracts to build reactors overseas...must be a marketing problem. See "Westinghouse AP1000" and "China" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Really ? You seemed to support Occupy in this thread: China is by most measures more unequal than Canada, Europe or the US: How do you "know" that ? And what does any of your strawmen have to do with BRICS? Last time I was in China, the cost of many things were more expensive and I heard there was a concentrated effort on the government to raise wages. Why does it bother you so much that China is now the #1 economy? Are you racist? Do you feel it is unfair a non white country is leading the world? You would think that a MLW moderator would know not to contribute to thread drift. How about you take all your links that have nothing to do with BRICS and go start a thread about this. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 It appears that the members of BRICS intend to support each other to their benefit; http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/12/india-build-nuclear-reactors-with-russia-2014121110318518210.html Taken from your link: But India opposes joining Western sanctions against Russia, and is likely to disregard a caution from Washington that now is not the right time to do business with Moscow. This is a powerful comment!!! For the first time in decades, the #1 and #3 world economy are not the US or an US occupied country such as Germany or Japan! Also this: "India now is all about development and it's looking to Russia to share its technology on military hardware for making here," said Unnikrishnan, a senior fellow with Delhi-based think-tank the Observer Research Foundation. Clearly obvious that India is seeking closer military ties with Russia! In my opinion, BRICS will lead to a first lose military association that will strengthen possibly to counter NATO. Good link by the way!!And never give anyone any credibility when they try to criticize the links you provide such as this one! If they do, it will be because they don't like the message. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I believe that those silly sanctions that Canada has placed on Russia are a mistake and are going to cost us plenty. Time for Canada to look elsewhere besides the USA for partnerships. I don't think that the sanctions were very deep. If so, than I will have to agree with you. Russia is a close neighboring country and despite our rivalry, I believe there are unique opportunities not fully exploited. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 And what does any of your strawmen have to do with BRICS? It was a response to your defense of China's economic approach, stated by you on this thread. Last time I was in China, the cost of many things were more expensive and I heard there was a concentrated effort on the government to raise wages. Something you heard in China ? It doesn't match up to an economic analysis done year-over-year, published in a newspaper etc. Why does it bother you so much that China is now the #1 economy? Are you racist? Do you feel it is unfair a non white country is leading the world? 1) It doesn't bother me. 2) I don't believe I'm racist no, why would you make such an accusation ? 3) No, I don't dispute that they have the #1 economy. I would especially welcome open democracy in China You would think that a MLW moderator would know not to contribute to thread drift. How about you take all your links that have nothing to do with BRICS and go start a thread about this. WWWTT It's about banking on the BRICS. I wouldn't bank on an economy where the people can't choose their leadership, where there is censorship and so on. It's not a stable environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 It was a response to your defense of China's economic approach, stated by you on this thread. Something you heard in China ? It doesn't match up to an economic analysis done year-over-year, published in a newspaper etc. 1) It doesn't bother me. 2) I don't believe I'm racist no, why would you make such an accusation ? 3) No, I don't dispute that they have the #1 economy. I would especially welcome open democracy in China It's about banking on the BRICS. I wouldn't bank on an economy where the people can't choose their leadership, where there is censorship and so on. It's not a stable environment. LOL! Do you really believe I need to defend China's track record? You will believe whatever you want to believe and I care less what you believe because you never have been to China! I have no desire to try to convince you of anything, it's clearly just a simple waste of time. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.