War in Libya

[Signals.Cpl]

To-day, there was a vote for the new members of the UN Security Council. Turkey was a favourite up to a few weeks ago when it did not enthusiastically join the USA coalition against ISIS. So Turkey now joins Canada in being given a slap on the hand by the USA. Remember about 4 years ago when Harper decided to change the direction of foreign policy, Canada got the cold shoulder from many at the UN? Well Turkey suffered the same fate.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=49090#.VEAe1chzb5o

The interesting result was that Venezuela got a seat.

Venezuela's government was unopposed for the single seat allocated to Latin America and the Caribbean. With Venezuela's victory, Russia and China has a potential ally on some international issues that have put them at odds with the three Western permanent members - the US, UK and France.

Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela's president, has ties with Iran and Syria, and has strongly supported Russia in the Ukraine crisis. Venezuela's foreign minister, Rafael Ramirez, claimed that the USA had been lobbying against Venezuela and said the win came despite a "malign campaign against our country".

The US, which publicly opposed Venezuela's last attempt to join the council in 2006, did not do so this time and would not discuss how it voted on Thursday.

If Canada is to establish better relations with Iran, Syria and Russia then perhaps Venezuela can be that bridge.

Do you actually think that a seat on the UNSC matters for anything other than maybe prestige? Russia has no need for an ally in the UNSC and neither does the US. All of the non-permanent members are trivial at best with regards to the UNSC and its votes.

[Big Guy]

Do you actually think that a seat on the UNSC matters for anything other than maybe prestige? Russia has no need for an ally in the UNSC and neither does the US. All of the non-permanent members are trivial at best with regards to the UNSC and its votes.

An interesting point of view but I disagree. Every vote, every decision by every country means something. There is a message that is sent with every vote and the challenge is to decipher it.

Sixteen of the twenty eight countries in the EU voted for Venezuela. If you feel this means nothing then you may be right. I do not. This is a message to the USA and the rest of the world which direction the EU is looking.

[Signals.Cpl]

I meant more as being in the UNSC brings nothing to the table, allows no more power to anyone side or nation in The SC. So Venezuela is a UNSC member? So what? It doesn't change the balance of power in any way shape of form.

[Big Guy]

In case anybody has noticed, ISIS now has a foothold in Libya - the same Libya that Canada helped to "free" with our bombs.

http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21678761-chaos-libyas-civil-war-has-allowed-islamic-state-consolidate-its-position

Libya’s civil war has allowed Islamic State to consolidate its position in Libya. But perhaps the most worrisome offshoot of the caliphate is made up of its three “provinces” in Libya, where it is estimated to have some 3,000 fighters. The group has gained ground there amid the chaos of a civil war between rival governments, and their allied militias, in the east and west of the country. State structures do not exist to counter its rise. Weapons, from rifles to rockets, abound. And the borders are porous. These are “the perfect conditions for a terrorist campaign”, writes Wolfgang Pusztai, a former Austrian defence attaché to Libya.

BTW - The civil war in Yemen, long home to a deadly al-Qaeda franchise, has allowed a branch of IS to emerge from the country’s ungoverned spaces to attack government, military and religious targets.

Do the pro-bombing folks on this board still feel that we are doing the right thing in the Middle East?

[Signals.Cpl]

In case anybody has noticed, ISIS now has a foothold in Libya - the same Libya that Canada helped to "free" with our bombs.

http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21678761-chaos-libyas-civil-war-has-allowed-islamic-state-consolidate-its-position

Libya’s civil war has allowed Islamic State to consolidate its position in Libya. But perhaps the most worrisome offshoot of the caliphate is made up of its three “provinces” in Libya, where it is estimated to have some 3,000 fighters. The group has gained ground there amid the chaos of a civil war between rival governments, and their allied militias, in the east and west of the country. State structures do not exist to counter its rise. Weapons, from rifles to rockets, abound. And the borders are porous. These are “the perfect conditions for a terrorist campaign”, writes Wolfgang Pusztai, a former Austrian defence attaché to Libya.

BTW - The civil war in Yemen, long home to a deadly al-Qaeda franchise, has allowed a branch of IS to emerge from the country’s ungoverned spaces to attack government, military and religious targets.

Do the pro-bombing folks on this board still feel that we are doing the right thing in the Middle East?

What would be your solution for the middle east? If All of a sudden the west withdrew and locked down all borders leading into Europe and stop all refugee traffic into North America what do you think would happen? Do you think ISIS and the other band of merry nut cases would decide to leave us alone?

I am not pro-bombing because I don't see bombing as the solution to anything, bombing as a part of a well rounded strategy? Sure as a part of a strategy rather than the whole strategy.

[Big Guy]

What would be your solution for the middle east? If All of a sudden the west withdrew and locked down all borders leading into Europe and stop all refugee traffic into North America what do you think would happen? Do you think ISIS and the other band of merry nut cases would decide to leave us alone?

I am not pro-bombing because I don't see bombing as the solution to anything, bombing as a part of a well rounded strategy? Sure as a part of a strategy rather than the whole strategy.

What is the strategy? Many ISIS fighters are locals in Syria and Iraq - similarly where in Afghanistan the Taliban were Afghanistan citizens who were in their own country. They did not invade it.

I suggest that if/when Western troops invade Sunni areas in Syria and Iraq, they will have little resistance as the fighters melt back into the populace and the American President of the time can get a photo OP on a carrier with a "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner. Then as the number of body bags going home start to increase there will be reviews and ...

Deja Vu - I just had a flashback!!!

Why do you expect a different result when you do the same thing to the same people?

As to leaving us alone, when did we leave them alone?

[eyeball]

What would be your solution for the middle east? If All of a sudden the west withdrew and locked down all borders leading into Europe and stop all refugee traffic into North America what do you think would happen? Do you think ISIS and the other band of merry nut cases would decide to leave us alone?

They wouldn't have a choice. They'd be way to busy trying to keep the people they're governing happy. If they proved to be useless at it or worse, the people well soon replace then with something better.

[Big Guy]

So now the USA is trying to broker a deal to try to put the Libyan war genie that it released (with Canada's help).

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/western-powers-rome-push-libya-unity-deal-151213110946391.html

Libya slid into chaos following the 2011 toppling and killing of long time leader Muammar Gaddafi. Since then, it has been torn between a UN-recognised government in eastern Tobruk and a Tripoli-based government. Meanwhile, ISIS has made major inroads and con trolls areas of Libya.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ISIS-Threat/ISIS-seizes-UNESCO-heritage-site-of-Sabratha-in-Libya-437097

So after the coalition (with Canada removed I hope) , in an attempt to defeat ISIS, bombs the hell out of Iraq and Syria then it can turn south and start bombing the hell out of Libya, Yemen ...

[bush_cheney2004]

So now the USA is trying to broker a deal to try to put the Libyan war genie that it released (with Canada's help).

Actually, UN Resolution 1973 was sponsored by SC members France, United Kingdom, and Lebanon, not the United States. Military attacks were led by NATO members France and United Kingdom. Canada supported the action just like the United States and many other nations.

[Big Guy]

On Nov 24 2011 - A ceremony for Canadian Forces members who served in the NATO-led mission in Libya on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. Harper declares victory having helped depose the dictator and “bring freedom to Libya”. Prime Minister Stephen Harper attended the ceremony under grey Ottawa skies with his wife, Laureen, and Lt.-Gen. Charles Bouchard, who oversaw the NATO mission that helped oust dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/photos-celebration-on-parliament-hill-to-mark-the-end-of-canadas-libya-mission

On Feb 2 2016 - Officials from 23 countries met in Rome to review the fight against Islamic State militants, who have created a self-proclaimed Caliphate across swathes of Syria and Iraq, and are spreading into other countries, notably Libya.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-coalition-idUSKCN0VA3RE

Now with ISIS gaining ground in Libya does anyone still think our previous politicians and military leaders had a clue about what they were doing and creating in the Middle East?

[Topaz]

The US was behind the regime change of Libya just like in Iraq. The government of Libya was trying to get other oil producing countries to change from the US dollar to another legal tender and the US couldn't have that happen and once again they got NATO involved and took out another leader of a country. Today, that country is a hell hole, like the rest of the ME and its no wonder the US has so many enemies in the ME..... its their own creation. http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-nato-invade-libya-to-fight-the-terrorists-of-its-own-creation/5505175

[bush_cheney2004]

The US was behind the regime change of Libya just like in Iraq. The government of Libya was trying to get other oil producing countries to change from the US dollar to another legal tender and the US couldn't have that happen and once again they got NATO involved and took out another leader of a country. Today, that country is a hell hole, like the rest of the ME and its no wonder the US has so many enemies in the ME..... its their own creation. http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-nato-invade-libya-to-fight-the-terrorists-of-its-own-creation/5505175

Even if any of that nonsense was true, why did Canada bomb Libya ? Wasn't having PM Paul Martin playing footsy with Gadaffi in his tent good enough ?

[GostHacked]

The US was behind the regime change of Libya just like in Iraq. The government of Libya was trying to get other oil producing countries to change from the US dollar to another legal tender and the US couldn't have that happen and once again they got NATO involved and took out another leader of a country. Today, that country is a hell hole, like the rest of the ME and its no wonder the US has so many enemies in the ME..... its their own creation. http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-nato-invade-libya-to-fight-the-terrorists-of-its-own-creation/5505175

Actually I believe it was more of Europe, specifically Italy and France and the UK. I've posted articles about the British SAS carrying weapons and explosives to meet with the 'rebels' in Libya

[Big Guy]

What I fear is that this new Canadian government decides to establish an independent association of the coalition by putting troops on the ground in the "potentially targeted" areas in Lebanon and Turkey and perhaps Libya. It appears that ISIS now has about 50,000 troops in Libya who are establishing a base from which to expand. That would be an excuse to get those aircraft back to Canada but would get us deeper into this expanding fiasco.

Bring our troops back home!!!

[Big Guy]

It appears that the USA has just noticed what Big Guy has been posting about. Libya is slowly being absorbed into ISIL. So the USA has decided that this transition is not going quickly enough so it is using the same tactics - bombing and accepting Libyan civilians deaths as "collateral damage".

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/deaths-reported-raids-isil-camp-libya-160219131122223.html

Get Canada out of there before we get involved in yet another local civil war - this time in Libya

About 6 years ago, Canada was part of another group in the "Intervention" (sounds better then bomb the crap out of) Libya. The official names for the interventions by the coalition members are Opération Harmattan by France; Operation Ellamy by the United Kingdom; Operation Mobile for the Canadian participation and Operation Odyssey Dawn for the United States.

In light of the success of that "Intervention" and the subsequent infiltration by ISIS I suggest that we rename that previous "Intervention" in Libya as "Operation Bonehead".

Edited February 19, 2016 by Big Guy

[eyeball]

Reports on the news this morning breathlessly exclaimed about growing concerns the crisis in Libya could destabilize the region.

/facepalm

Edited February 19, 2016 by eyeball

[Big Guy]

Now the USA has expanded its failed policy against ISIS into Libya:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/warplanes-target-isil-libya-time-160801154026785.html

Edited August 1, 2016 by Big Guy