Should Women/Men Pay Different Rates for the CPP?

[waldo]

This chart shows people at age 65, is there something for age groups higher than that? I wonder what the numbers look like for 80+people

no - it's 65 and older

[Hal 9000]

no - it's 65 and older

Fair enough! I misread that.

It shows percentage of women and men. Assuming they are alive, what is the actual number of men and actual number of women? That might get to the original point the the OP.

[cybercoma]

Look, I don't need to nor do I have the time or will to go proving other people's arguments for them. I can accept that women draw more money from CPP if someone will show the numbers to backup the claim. Then we can argue all day about whether it's substantially enough more to warrant them paying more into it and how much more. However, we haven't even established that they draw more CPP yet, let alone get into the point of the argument here.

[Hal 9000]

If women live 25% longer than a man after the age of 65, then maybe there is something to the idea that women collect more (take more) from the system then men.

I wouldn't suggest that women pay more, and it would surely be political suicide for any politician to do so. It's just another perk of being a woman that has to be accepted.

[WestCoastRunner]

I wouldn't suggest that women pay more, and it would surely be political suicide for any politician to do so. It's just another perk of being a woman that has to be accepted.

And what are the other perks of being a woman in a man's world.

[Hal 9000]

And what are the other perks of being a woman in a man's world.

In what way exactly is it a mans world? This isn't the 50's anymore.

[waldo]

Look, I don't need to nor do I have the time or will to go proving other people's arguments for them. I can accept that women draw more money from CPP if someone will show the numbers to backup the claim. Then we can argue all day about whether it's substantially enough more to warrant them paying more into it and how much more. However, we haven't even established that they draw more CPP yet, let alone get into the point of the argument here.

MLW members 'overthere and Shady' made the claims and are MIA in providing numbers... MLW member 'Bonam' says, "it's very basic math".

[cybercoma]

If women live 25% longer than a man after the age of 65, then maybe there is something to the idea that women collect more (take more) from the system then men.

I wouldn't suggest that women pay more, and it would surely be political suicide for any politician to do so. It's just another perk of being a woman that has to be accepted.

Put up the numbers.

[Hal 9000]

Put up the numbers.

CBC News - In Canada, average life expectancy for males born in 2012 is 80 and for females 84, the agency said in Thursday’s report, World Health Statistics 2014. In comparison, males born in Canada in 1990 could expect to live to 74 and females to 81 on average.

According to this, females will on average live nearly 50% more longer men, therefore will actually collect significantly more pension money than men. Now, as the argument goes, if companies like ICBC charge more for men because they collect more than women in auto claims, then maybe it's not so crazy to consider that women should pay a higher premium than men for CPP.

Like I said though, the issue will never ever be even suggested by any politician.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Hal 9000

[waldo]

CBC News - In Canada, average life expectancy for males born in 2012 is 80 and for females 84, the agency said in Thursday’s report, World Health Statistics 2014.

per the latest CPP 2013 actuarial report:

[Shady]

You stated something that can be verified empirically: women draw more CPP than men.

Yes, it's simple math. Females live a few years longer, and therefore take more from CPP. If males lived the same lenght of time, the system would be in shortfall. Right now, men are subsidizing that gap in life expectancy.

[waldo]

Yes, it's simple math.

then... where are your numbers... if it's so simple?

[Shady]

then... where are your numbers... if it's so simple?

You need life expectancy posted again?

[cybercoma]

CBC News - In Canada, average life expectancy for males born in 2012 is 80 and for females 84, the agency said in Thursday’s report, World Health Statistics 2014. In comparison, males born in Canada in 1990 could expect to live to 74 and females to 81 on average.

According to this, females will on average live nearly 50% more longer men, therefore will actually collect significantly more pension money than men. Now, as the argument goes, if companies like ICBC charge more for men because they collect more than women in auto claims, then maybe it's not so crazy to consider that women should pay a higher premium than men for CPP.

Like I said though, the issue will never ever be even suggested by any politician.

You're creating a strawman argument. Nobody is debating life expectancies here.

[cybercoma]

Yes, it's simple math. Females live a few years longer, and therefore take more from CPP. If males lived the same lenght of time, the system would be in shortfall. Right now, men are subsidizing that gap in life expectancy.

One does not follow from the other. Just because some women live longer than some men doesn't mean that women as a group are drawing more CPP than men as a group. Nobody is disputing life expectancy.

Here's something you may want to consider: women from wealthier social statuses are more likely to live longer and more likely to be stay-at-home mothers. That means those women who are most likely to live longer are also the least likely to draw CPP, as they're the least likely to have a history of employment.

It's very simple. You make the claim that women draw more CPP; you provide CPP data showing this to be true. If you cannot provide that CPP data, then you retract the claim or admit that you don't actually know who draws more.

Edited October 16, 2014 by cybercoma

[Shady]

One does not follow from the other. Just because some women live longer than some men doesn't mean that women as a group are drawing more CPP then men as a group. Nobody is disputing life expectancy.

Here's something you may want to consider: women from wealthier social statuses are more likely to live longer and more likely to be stay-at-home mothers. That means those women who are most likely to live longer are also the least likely to draw CPP, as they're the least likely to have a history of employment.

Women in general, pay less into it, and draw for a longer time. That gap is subsidized by men. If men lived as long as women, CPP would need to make up the shortfall.

[cybercoma]

Women in general, pay less into it, and draw for a longer time. That gap is subsidized by men. If men lived as long as women, CPP would need to make up the shortfall.

Don't tell. Show.

[Shady]

Don't tell. Show.

You need life expectancy posted again too?

[cybercoma]

You need life expectancy posted again too?

Maybe I'm not being clear. Life expectancy is not what's being argued. Everyone knows that women live longer. Do I need to re-word my post for you where I explain to you why life expectancy itself is not sufficient to prove your claim? Your claim is that women draw more CPP than men. Show us the amount of CPP paid out to women is greater than the amount paid out to men. How many dollars go to men? How many dollars go to women? How big is the difference? What is that per capita of males and females over the age of 65?

Proving your claim is very, very simple. I'm not even disputing your claim. You might be right. I just don't know and you've failed to prove it.

[The_Squid]

CBC News - In Canada, average life expectancy for males born in 2012 is 80 and for females 84, the agency said in Thursday’s report, World Health Statistics 2014. In comparison, males born in Canada in 1990 could expect to live to 74 and females to 81 on average.

According to this, females will on average live nearly 50% more longer men, therefore will actually collect significantly more pension money than men. Now, as the argument goes, if companies like ICBC charge more for men because they collect more than women in auto claims, then maybe it's not so crazy to consider that women should pay a higher premium than men for CPP.

Like I said though, the issue will never ever be even suggested by any politician.

I'm disputing Hal's math that women live 50% longer than men.

Women live ~ 4 years longer, which is about 5% longer. 50% would have women living to 120 years old.

Assuming you made a typo, show us the figures that women actually collect more pension money from CPP than men. Actual numbers, not your (and Shady's and August's) hypothetical BS.

Why do conservatives insist on unsubstantiated claims? It's like a religious faith!! I believe, therefore it is true.

[Hal 9000]

Maybe I'm not being clear. Life expectancy is not what's being argued. Everyone knows that women live longer. Do I need to re-word my post for you where I explain to you why life expectancy itself is not sufficient to prove your claim? Your claim is that women draw more CPP than men. Show us the amount of CPP paid out to women is greater than the amount paid out to men. How many dollars go to men? How many dollars go to women? How big is the difference? What is that per capita of males and females over the age of 65?

Proving your claim is very, very simple. I'm not even disputing your claim. You might be right. I just don't know and you've failed to prove it.

Of course were talking about life expectancy. If we both start collecting CPP at 65 (assuming the monthly amounts are equal), you will collect twice as much as me by time we're both dead.

[Hal 9000]

I'm disputing Hal's math that women live 50% longer than men.

Women live ~ 4 years longer, which is about 5% longer. 50% would have women living to 120 years old.

Assuming you made a typo, show us the figures that women actually collect more pension money from CPP than men. Actual numbers, not your (and Shady's and August's) hypothetical BS.

Why do conservatives insist on unsubstantiated claims? It's like a religious faith!! I believe, therefore it is true.

Oh my, I didn't think I'd have to explain the math but...If a man lives to 74 (which they currently do), that gives him 9 years (after 65) to collect CPP. If a woman lives to 81 (which they currently do) , that gives her 16 years to collect CPP.

That means that a man only lives 56% as long as a woman after retirement age of 65.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Hal 9000

[waldo]

Oh my, I didn't think I'd have to explain the math but...If a man lives to 74 (which they currently do), that gives him 9 years (after 65) to collect CPP. If a woman lives to 81 (which they currently do) , that gives her 16 years to collect CPP.

your life expectancy numbers don't agree with those used by/within the CPP... I posted the actual table... you seem to have chosen to ignore it:

[Hal 9000]

your life expectancy numbers don't agree with those used by/within the CPP... I posted the actual table... you seem to have chosen to ignore it:

You used a chart showing a projection of what % of people (of either sex) will live to what age. I posted the average life expectancy because I believe it's a more relevant way of establishing how much CPP will likely be paid out to each sex. I'm not ignoring it, I just don't think it tells the complete story. Even if it did, women still live and collect pensions longer than men.

I challenge anyone to check out a nursing home and tell me there's as many men as there are women.

[guyser]

Even if it did, women still live and collect pensions longer than men.

No one disagrees w that.

But the above does not equal ...

If we both start collecting CPP at 65 (assuming the monthly amounts are equal), you will collect twice as much as me by time we're both dead.

So yea...you best explain 'Oh my, I didn't think I'd have to explain the math '