China and Canada, Freedom Foes or Trade Friends

[WWWTT]

'

China the leadership is doing well. China the average person is not. That's the big difference between us an them. By artificially lowering the currency they keep exports high, and export profits high, but effectively steal money from the population by keeping the value of their labor lower than it would naturally be. The dictators in China profit themselves and the national budget at the expense of the standard of living of the average Chinese.

You have a link for this?

I agree they are actively trying to keep the RMB low to keep exports high. But the government is also actively trying to increase wages and unions are allowed to strike!

I have personally seen the price increases there. As compared to Thailand, Bangkok has virtually stood still in the last 5 years. Thailand in my opinion would be a lot more attractive for cheaper labour now.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

For anyone interested in a different perspective.

http://wp.me/p4xlGl-1AM

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

This one really digs in!

http://orientalreview.org/2014/10/03/the-umbrella-revolution-and-secessionist-political-contagion-in-china-i/

WWWTT

[The_Squid]

Here is another perspective:

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/china

The government censors the press, the Internet, print publications, and academic research, and justifies human rights abuses as necessary to preserve “social stability.” It carries out involuntary population relocation and rehousing on a massive scale, and enforces highly repressive policies in ethnic minority areas in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Inner Mongolia. Though primary school enrollment and basic literacy rates are high, China’s education system discriminates against children and young people with disabilities.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/china

[WWWTT]

Here is another perspective:

Oh you mean these guys?

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CE0QFjAK&url=http%3A%2F

%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCriticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch&ei=6DYvVOPjKoWyyATM94HQAQ&usg=AFQjCNFIsoKerZakOvePP6_HVNCwQ4Yz2w&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=0CFoQFjAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org%2F2013%2F03%2F14%2Fthe-bias-of-human-rights-watch%2F&ei=6DYvVOPjKoWyyATM94HQAQ&usg=AFQjCNEjPSWIx_etsWcqOqx2AyBoT_9-mw&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CEIQFjAFOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.antiwar.com%2Frep%2Ftreanor1.html&ei=OTkvVJToOsy3yAShtYH4Cg&usg=AFQjCNHDiWavW8V-R6WsDg-p8CNlmHnA1A&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CE8QFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Finternational%2Farchive%2F2009%2F07%2Ffundraising-corruption-at-human-rights-watch%2F21345%2F&ei=OTkvVJToOsy3yAShtYH4Cg&usg=AFQjCNEIOMF28omQYLAEBxFT-WAssP8jmw&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

You know what the funny thing is? I only typed in a search of this alleged human rights group and all this came up!

I never had any problems accessing MLW when I was in Mainland China. But no Facebook or youtube. Probably protecting their own version of facebook called QQ I am disapointed there is no youtube.

WWWTT

Edited October 4, 2014 by WWWTT

[WWWTT]

And still lots more!

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/10/02/occupy-centrals-ties-ned

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

To this point, there has been no real violence but it is feared that Chinese tanks will soon be moving in.

Do you have a link of who is fearing that the Chinese tanks will be rolling in soon?

Looks like the protestors have more to fear from their fellow Hong Kong citizens!

I give it another week and everyone goes back to school/work. Maybe two.

http://aje.me/1CIpFzG

WWWTT

[Argus]

LOL!

The people of China have more freedom than you do in Canada!

Your statement is laughably silly. On what do you base it other than fantasy?

[Argus]

If you're wealthy, not if you're poor and African American

Also there is more people in jail per capita in the US so what you are saying is factually false.

WWWTT

Your statements are becoming more and more bizarre. Are you simply seeking attention?

Poor African Americans still have more rights and freedoms than the Chinese. And Chinese data on imprisonment is fairly easily falsified.

[Argus]

Going to have to answer each point separately.

First off, their justice system is very blind. Doesn't matter if your are a police officer or a wealthy person or a politician. All receive the same treatment.

A ludicrous statement. The Chinese courts are an extension of the Communist Party. They will find guilt or innocence primarily based upon the influence the accused has with the Party. They are also notoriously corrupt. The bigger thieves are never even charged of course, since they're running the country. Every member of the Politburo is a billionaire.

I consider that very fair and a high standard reflecting court consideration of ones rights. Another way of saying this is that no one has more rights as we see in western courts.

Bizarroland nonsense.

Everytime I have been in China, I have clearly seen people of various faith free to practice their faith, many are even openly members of congress in the communist party.

I guess they don't put the raids on churches on your tour guide. Chinese churches must answer to the government. That's why the Catholic church has so much problems there. The Chinese don't like a church which is independent. The Chinese have thus invented a Catholic church and appoint the bishops themselves.

I personally know several members of the communist party of China (CPC) and from what I hear, we should be protesting here in the streets to adopt a similar system unique to Canada!

Another bizzaroland suggestion. Next you'll be swooning about the dedication ISIL has for protecting human rights, especially the rights of minorities.

[Argus]

When was the last time you voted on a budget bill?

Or when was the last time you were able to forward a bill at any level of government?

WWWTT

When was the last time the RCMP kicked in your door and dragged you off to prison for saying unkind things about Harper? When was the last time your internet account was cancelled for writing things opposed to government policy?

[Argus]

Didn't need your explanation of how things work here. Already am a member of the NDP and was an executive member at the riding association level. But thanks anyways

I'm sure then that you'd want Canada's government to emulate China's. In other words, the police will be raiding your executive and arresting all members today for openly opposing government policy and denigrating our leader.

Don't worry, you'll like working on a farm. And after a few years, perhaps they'll let you have a radio.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Amnesty International - Annual Report 2011 - China

The Chinese government responded to a burgeoning civil society by jailing and persecuting people for peacefully expressing their views, holding religious beliefs not sanctioned by the state, advocating for democratic reform and human rights, and defending the rights of others. Popular social media sites remained blocked by China’s internet firewall. The authorities continued to repress Tibetan, Uighur, Mongolian and other ethnic minority populations. On the international stage, China grew more confident and more aggressive in punishing countries whose leaders spoke publicly about its human rights record.

Torture and other ill-treatment

Torture and other ill-treatment remained endemic in places of detention. Amnesty International received reports of deaths in custody, some of them caused by torture, in a variety of state institutions, including prisons and police detention centres. In July, new regulations were introduced to strengthen prohibitions against the use of illegal oral evidence in criminal cases, including coerced confessions. However, China’s Criminal Procedure Law had not yet been amended to explicitly prohibit the use of confessions obtained through torture and ill-treatment as evidence before the courts.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/china/report-2011#section-29-7

[WWWTT]

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/china/report-2011#section-29-7

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCriticism_of_Amnesty_International&ei=-n0wVK_3KMqQyATdqIHQCw&usg=AFQjCNH0xYqEsiZ6Jd_2OJGfZo-22iAckA&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CD4QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ngo-monitor.org%2Farticle%2Famnesty_international&ei=-n0wVK_3KMqQyATdqIHQCw&usg=AFQjCNGynH8AH2oYpk9X3URLvSRMVslvPg&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

And then this one

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macleans.ca%2Fpolitics%2Fottawa%2Fkenney-vs-amnesty-the-case-against-amnesty-international%2F&ei=-n0wVK_3KMqQyATdqIHQCw&usg=AFQjCNEXasK-c3HHMeRARO9Hj4BwaBat3A&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

I posted these links because it clearly shows that Amnesty international is not without criticism.

And then this taken from your link

A number of cases where innocent people were sentenced to death or executed became heated topics of public debate, putting pressure on the authorities to address the issue.

Heated topics of public debate? China is having "heated topics of public debate". Is that a good thing or is that a bad thing?

Hears a little history

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDoQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Focw.mit.edu%2Fans7870%2F21f%2F21f.027%2Fopium_wars_01%2Fow1_essay01.html&ei=7YQwVOmQI4WGyQTd5YDgDA&usg=AFQjCNFB3RXqDkcWJ8kiBb53Q01MYGQcJg&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEAQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sacu.org%2Fopium.html&ei=7YQwVOmQI4WGyQTd5YDgDA&usg=AFQjCNE0LarS-fvqQ8ybqF2fEjiOI9x5pg&bvm=bv.76802529,d.aWw&cad=rja

Some people here are writing as if they are under the impression that affairs in China used to be way better! And this simply was never the case.(unless you go back several hundreds of years ago and compare their affairs to other regions of that time)

China is a unique country with a unique history that has influenced it's peoples to make serious changes and considerations.

Thank you Michael Hardner for providing your link that shows that China is slowly mitigating(baby steps) in the right direction.

WWWTT

Edited October 4, 2014 by WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Your statement is laughably silly. On what do you base it other than fantasy?

Wo hui shuo putonghua.

Erqie, Wo qu guo Zhonguo hen duo ci zhu zai nali.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

A ludicrous statement. The Chinese courts are an extension of the Communist Party. They will find guilt or innocence primarily based upon the influence the accused has with the Party. They are also notoriously corrupt. The bigger thieves are never even charged of course, since they're running the country. Every member of the Politburo is a billionaire.

So if I made the same comment about the US or Canada would you ask me for a link to prove it?

WWWTT

[Argus]

Wo hui shuo putonghua.

Erqie, Wo qu guo Zhonguo hen duo ci zhu zai nali.

WWWTT

What the hell. It makes as much sense as the brainless gibberish you post in English.

[WWWTT]

When was the last time the RCMP kicked in your door and dragged you off to prison for saying unkind things about Harper? When was the last time your internet account was cancelled for writing things opposed to government policy?

Oh ok so when I made this comment, I get this

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23917-rob-ford-abdominal-tumor/page-4#entry996900

But somehow the rules change when you discuss China hey.

Not just that, the Chinese system is different from ours and there are different procedures.

Not China's fault that you haven't taken the time to understand their history and political system. But why would they care anyways? You don't live their or have any interest there.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

What the hell. It makes as much sense as the brainless gibberish you post in English.

Sorry but I had to change the hard drive on my computer and I lost my simplified Chinese writer. So I have to resort to using pinyin form Chinese writing.

But I believe that should answer your question.

WWWTT

[Argus]

But somehow the rules change when you discuss China hey.

No, the rules have always been that if you make a ridiculous, asinine statement people get to make fun of it.

Not just that, the Chinese system is different from ours and there are different procedures.

The system is different in that there is no freedom there, you mean? But it was your statement they had more freedom that we do.

Please explain why you are not in prison now. You certainly would be if you tried to join or form an opposition party in China, or if you dared to voice open opposition to government programs or mock our political leadership.

You seem to enjoy doing this yet at the same time you bleat about what freedom there is in China.

Ludicrous.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Argus

[WWWTT]

Lets move this debate back to the topic.

Thank you

http://www.popularresistance.org/us-role-in-occupy-central-exposed/

WWWTT

[Argus]

Sorry but I had to change the hard drive on my computer and I lost my simplified Chinese writer. So I have to resort to using pinyin form Chinese writing.

But I believe that should answer your question.

WWWTT

Well, as I said, even though it's gibberish it's as coherent and logical as anything you've written about China in English.

[Argus]

Lets move this debate back to the topic.

The topic seems clear, about China's lack of freedom. You have stated they are more free than we are. Back it up or retract.

[WWWTT]

No, the rules have always been that if you make a ridiculous, asinine statement people get to make fun of it.

The system is different in that there is no freedom there, you mean? But it was your statement they had more freedom that we do.

Please explain why you are not in prison now. You certainly would be if you tried to join or form an opposition party in China, or if you dared to voice open opposition to government programs or mock our political leadership.

You seem to enjoy doing this yet at the same time you bleat about what freedom there is in China.

Ludicrous.

Actually if you want to be a dick head, there isn't any rules! You clearly proven that 7 comments ago!

You seem to put a lot of value on being able to voice opposition on the government as evidence of freedom!

Weishenme ni bu xihuan xue shuo Hanyu?

Ni bu yong shuo putonghua ma?

Ruguo ni xue Hanyu, keneng ni hui mingbai Zhongguoren.

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

Leung has demanded the streets be clear by Monday (or else). Their problem is of course too many cameras around to roll the tanks. I suspect we will see more thugs dispersed to instigate violence to provide an excuse to activate the PLA. Could be a scary week coming up over there.