Canada's Justice Minister - "No Compromise"?

[waldo]

It takes but a few keystrokes and America's Google/Wiki to shine the true light on Canada's proud (wartime) heritage:

off topic - please stop your purposeful intent to derail threads.

[socialist]

off topic - please stop your purposeful intent to derail threads.

I'm no fan of the current neo-liberal federal government, but who really cares about a T shirt. This is the partisan crap that is destroying this country. There are major problems and some people get all bent out of shape over a T Shirt.

[waldo]

I'm no fan of the current neo-liberal federal government, but who really cares about a T shirt. This is the partisan crap that is destroying this country. There are major problems and some people get all bent out of shape over a T Shirt.

who cares about your neo-liberal fetish... by the by... the tee represents sumthin. Carry on.

[bush_cheney2004]

As T-shirts go, it is pretty tame and reflects the sentiments of many gun owners, Canadian or not:

[socialist]

who cares about your neo-liberal fetish... by the by... the tee represents sumthin. Carry on.

You are the one making a big deal out of nothing. What a useless thread. There are huge problems out there and you focus on a T-Shirt. What a joke. No wonder this country is in decline.

[waldo]

As T-shirts go, it is pretty tame and reflects the sentiments of many gun owners, Canadian or not:

again, your attempt to 'Americanize' and distract this Canadian Federal Politics forum thread is not wanted.

To re-design the Come And Take It flag for today wasn't very hard, because most of the work had already been done by Sarah Lee Dewitt in 1835. Since the cannon was the only item that was slightly dated, it made sense to replace it with a modern firearm. It would need to be a firearm that someone, in fact, many someones at many levels of government are literally coming to take, and in many instances, have already taken it. It would have to be American designed and made. It would have to be easily recognizable even at a long distance. It should be a military-style firearm so there is no doubt that the right to keep and bear arms includes these firearms. It should have the features that are the target of todays tyrants: high-capacity magazine, bayonet lug, and flash suppressor, and not necessarily semi-automatic only.

The choice was easy to make, because there is only one firearm meeting those criteria. It was designed by an American, has been used extensively by the US military, is instantly recognized by everyone, and so on. That firearm, as you might have guessed, is the Colt AR-15/M-16.

[bush_cheney2004]

More on Canada's C7:

The Colt Canada C7 is a Canadian assault rifle, manufactured by Colt Canada (formerly Diemaco prior to 2005), a variant of the Armalite AR-15, and having similar design and function to the Colt M16A3.

[waldo]

More on Canada's C7:

how juvenile... now you're purposely throwing down gun porn to distract this thread!

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada's C7 may or may not be depicted in the MacKay t-shirt, but the basic sentiment remains regardless of which assault rifles can dance on the head of a pin. What a great way to get out the vote !

[bush_cheney2004]

I think this close up photo clarifies any misunderstanding about Mr. MacKay's message. Note the mapleleaf stamped into the receiver.

Edited August 28, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Derek 2.0]

As T-shirts go, it is pretty tame and reflects the sentiments of many gun owners, Canadian or not:

I certainly have no issue with the logo itself, and though I don’t currently own either a Swiss Arms or CZ 858 (I did own one of these in the past), I was certainly in agreement with the meme of “No Compromise” over reclassifications. That said, the NFA’s methodology towards lobbying, media communications and stated endgame certainly leaves a lot to be desired….And not only won’t achieve positive results, but could very possibly have the opposite effect.

It would be akin to the NRA being run by college students with a Facebook, that alienate not only Democrats, but Republicans too……….Though I did purchase a lifetime membership several years ago with the org, I no longer intend to support the NFA with further donations, which I curtailed last year and stopped earlier this summer………and I am far from alone, with many members, gun clubs, hunting groups, retailers and industry doing the like………

At the end of the day, why would anyone continue to financially reward not only poor performance, but counterproductive policies and wholesale embarrassment…….though the squeaky wheel gets the grease, the warped wheel gets replaced.

[waldo]

Canada's C7 may or may not be depicted in the MacKay t-shirt, but the basic sentiment remains regardless of which assault rifles can dance on the head of a pin. What a great way to get out the vote !

as referenced earlier... as stated within media coverage, the gun in that bastardized Canadian flag logo is an AR-15... but you knew that!

[waldo]

I think this close up photo clarifies any misunderstanding about Mr. MacKay's message:

sir! I've accomodated your desire to throw down gun porn... there is now a dedicated thread. Please use it instead of distracting other threads from their intent/topic discussion.

[bush_cheney2004]

We have linkage....we have linkage...clearly if the mapleleaf logo is good enough for Canadian Forces C7 infantry and police rifles, it is good enough for a cotton T-shirt !

[waldo]

I certainly have no issue with the logo itself, and though I dont currently own either a Swiss Arms or CZ 858 (I did own one of these in the past), I was certainly in agreement with the meme of No Compromise over reclassifications. That said, the NFAs methodology towards lobbying, media communications and stated endgame certainly leaves a lot to be desired.And not only wont achieve positive results, but could very possibly have the opposite effect.

good on ya for finally acknowledging the single origin behind the CNFA's "No Compromise" campaign.

the female CNFA rep in the pic with MacKay seems like a real loose cannon; foul mouthed based on some of her facebook comments I've read/seen referred to. In any case, I agree with your comments about 'results' backfiring on them. She actually wrote about "getting to MacKay before he actually knew why they were really there" (I paraphrase). She also claimed he didn't know what an AR-15 was... do you personally believe MacKay, particularly given his Defense Minister portfolio assignment and his many, many publicized encounters with Canadian Forces members... wouldn't know what an AR-15 is? Again, do you personally accept that MacKay didn't know what the CNFA organization stands for?

[Derek 2.0]

I think this close up photo clarifies any misunderstanding about Mr. MacKay's message. Note the mapleleaf stamped into the receiver.

Though domestic industry certainly factors somewhat into the equation, it has only a fraction of the impact as it does down South due to differing campaign finance and lobbying laws……….Notice that Colt has left Connecticut to RTW gun friendly Texas...future Colt offerings to the consumer market in the States will certainly have Texan/Canadian content….

None the less, due in part to the price point, far more Canadian AR-15 owners favour cheaper Chinese offerings compared to a “Buy American Canadian” Colt.

[Derek 2.0]

as referenced earlier... as stated within media coverage, the gun in that bastardized Canadian flag logo is an AR-15... but you knew that!

The C-7/8 is a variant of the AR-15……….nearly all modern American, Canadian, Chinese and European gun manufactures make their own clone.

[waldo]

The C-7/8 is a variant of the AR-15……….nearly all modern American, Canadian, Chinese and European gun manufactures make their own clone.

not relevant; again, the media identified gun within the logo, even the CNFA rep acknowledgement, speak to the gun as the AR-15

[scribblet]

But Canada has long been specifically associated with a rifle (Ross), and wars to save the Commonwealth from certain doom. Why would it be considered any different now under PM Harper ?

Jack liked guns, he was not averse to them

[Derek 2.0]

good on ya for finally acknowledging the single origin behind the CNFA's "No Compromise" campaign.

the female CNFA rep in the pic with MacKay seems like a real loose cannon; foul mouthed based on some of her facebook comments I've read/seen referred to. In any case, I agree with your comments about 'results' backfiring on them. She actually wrote about "getting to MacKay before he actually knew why they were really there" (I paraphrase). She also claimed he didn't know what an AR-15 was... do you personally believe MacKay, particularly given his Defense Minister portfolio assignment and his many, many publicized encounters with Canadian Forces members... wouldn't know what an AR-15 is? Again, do you personally accept that MacKay didn't know what the CNFA organization stands for?

It’s very plausible, though I couldn’t confirm with 100% certainty………Very few Canadians, including those in the media and politics, actually know the legal status of the semi-automatic AR-15 in Canada……..As to the reference to his time with the CF, this further exemplifies the point (not meant as an attack), that yourself has a level of misunderstanding with the rifle, fore the Canadian Forces don’t operate the semi-automatic AR-15, but the select fire C7/C8, a direct variant of the select fire M-16.

Where the confusion can be further compounded, is in the marketing by Colt Canada’s semi-auto only variant of the C7/C8 rifles, named as homage to their select-fire rifles produced for the Canadian Forces.

[Derek 2.0]

not relevant; again, the media identified gun within the logo, even the CNFA rep acknowledgement, speak to the gun as the AR-15

It is an AR-15 without a doubt.......no contention there.

[waldo]

Jack liked guns, he was not averse to them

as much as Layton was a vocal supporter of the gun registry, it was disappointing to see him release NDP members to vote 'their conscience' when the initial scrap vote came up. In the end (post-Layton) only 2 Opposition members (both NDP) crossed party lines to vote along with the Harper Conservatives to scrap the (long) gun registry.

[waldo]

Its very plausible, though I couldnt confirm with 100% certaintyVery few Canadians, including those in the media and politics, actually know the legal status of the semi-automatic AR-15 in Canada..As to the reference to his time with the CF, this further exemplifies the point (not meant as an attack), that yourself has a level of misunderstanding with the rifle, fore the Canadian Forces dont operate the semi-automatic AR-15, but the select fire C7/C8, a direct variant of the select fire M-16.

Where the confusion can be further compounded, is in the marketing by Colt Canadas semi-auto only variant of the C7/C8 rifles, named as homage to their select-fire rifles produced for the Canadian Forces.

ok - I get it now and better understand your earlier comment... and the issue with trademark infringement... although wouldn't the 'takeover' of Diemaco (by Colt) put an end to that Canadian Forces C7 variant, going for the real thing instead? (see, googly makes me appear semi-intelligent). In any case, back to the main point about the AR-15 on the tee that MacKay wore... a restricted gun that the CNFA rep expressed surprise that MacKay (as she said) didn't know what an AR-15 was... a gun the CNFA apparently wants no restrictions applied to.

so... knowingly, or not, MacKay poses with a pro gun lobby's supplied tee with a restricted assault rifle-Canadian flag logo. Good optics by the Canadian Justice Minister to raise the ire of gun control proponents - like me!

Edited August 28, 2014 by waldo

[socialist]

ok - I get it now and better understand your earlier comment... and the issue with trademark infringement... although wouldn't the 'takeover' of Diemaco (by Colt) put an end to that Canadian Forces C7 variant, going for the real thing instead? (see, googly makes me appear semi-intelligent). In any case, back to the main point about the AR-15 on the tee that MacKay wore... a restricted gun that the CNFA rep expressed surprise that MacKay (as she said) didn't know what an AR-15 was... a gun the CNFA apparently wants no restrictions applied to.

so... knowingly, or not, MacKay poses with a pro gun lobby's supplied tee with a restricted assault rifle-Canadian flag logo. Good optics by the Canadian Justice Minister to raise the ire of gun control proponents - like me!

It's scary to think that with gun control, the only people with guns will be the outlaws. That kind of scares me.

[Derek 2.0]

ok - I get it now and better understand your earlier comment... and the issue with trademark infringement... although wouldn't the 'takeover' of Diemaco (by Colt) put an end to that Canadian Forces C7 variant, going for the real thing instead? (see, googly makes me appear semi-intelligent).

Not really, Diemaco(now Colt Canada) started building the licenced variant of the Colt M-16 for the Canadian Forces after winning the contract for replacement rifles under the Trudeau Government. Canadian Diemaco made several alterations to the parent design (namely a stronger barrel with a slight difference to rifling twist to improve accuracy) that became marketable to other NATO allies, and were later implemented by Colt itself………..

Fast forward to the 90s and the contraction of Defense industries and Diemaco, with diminishing orders, became susceptible to corporate take-over….hence it’s purchase by Colt.

In any case, back to the main point about the AR-15 on the tee that MacKay wore... a restricted gun that the CNFA rep expressed surprise that MacKay (as she said) didn't know what an AR-15 was... a gun the CNFA apparently wants no restrictions applied to.

My political bias aside, I still feel Mackay’s claim is plausible……..Externally, the only difference between the AR-15 and the M-16 is one additional position on the M-16s safety/selector switch……….It’s reasonable to assume, and I feel an honest mistake, for the untrained to make.

On visual inspection only, could you tell the difference between the rifle used by the Canadian Forces, and a AR-15 intended for the commercial market? A clear, honest mistake that could be made by anyone without direct knowledge of the platform.

so... knowingly, or not, MacKay poses with a pro gun lobby's supplied tee with a restricted assault rifle-Canadian flag logo. Good optics by the Canadian Justice Minister to raise the ire of gun control proponents - like me!

Perhaps, or a mistake made by a politician, that given the shirt by a CF veteran, could have assumed it some form of military mantra, emboldened with a patriotic emblem of the Canadian flag and standard issue rifle of the Canadian army, coupled with macho slogan demonstrating resolve………

Of course we’ll never actually know, but one has to figure Mackay wouldn’t willingly adorn the logo of a lobby organization that the Government has purposely distanced itself from (preferring working with its competitor the CSSA), the very same group that is not only critical of the current Government, but also Mackay directy, dating all the way back to his term as PC Leader…..