New Brunswick - Student Debt

[havok]

The student debt crisis in New Brunswick is a real issue on both the provincial and federal level of politics.

There are thousands of students in the province that are suffering tremendously from outrageous interest rates on loans, so much so that the youth is fleeing out west to provinces like Alberta and BC in order to find adequate work which pays well enough to afford the loan.

I understand that most people at the time they accept a loan from the government have no idea what they're getting themselves into or what they even want to do as a career choice. I know I made this mistake and either

a) the government must educate the youth in the province on the consequences of selecting a large loan hand out or

decline more students and decrease funding because it's not going to help if you hand over 12k a year to a kid who has no idea what he wants to do with his life

For more coverage, see - worldpoliticalatmosphere.blogspot.ca <- my blog

[jbg]

You mean people don't understand the difference between "loan" and "grant"?

[cybercoma]

The Alward government severely restricted the ability to get loans when they took power. This has led to the increase in thefts on campus at UNB, imo. These are the consequences you don't hear about in the news. Further restricting loans will also make New Brunswick youth less employable out West while simultaneously being unable to find work here. At the end of the day, student debt is only a problem when there are no jobs and there are no jobs right now, especially in the Maritimes. While national unemployment inched down in the latest revised numbers, Maritime unemployment increased.

What New Brunswick needs is a national strategy for alleviating the jobs crisis in the region, but we are being ignored by Ottawa. The Maritimes delivered Harper his victory in 2006 and again in the following election. They're starting to tire of the promises of jobs and prosperity that never arrive. The Maritimes will go to Trudeau next election, almost certainly.

What New Brunswick needs is a way to get money into the hands of working class people, who then create demand by buying more the things they want. When money is funnelled to the McCains and Irvings, there's only so many pairs of pants and so much groceries they can buy in any given month. If that money was spread over more Maritimers, then there would be more demand for those goods.

As for student debt, Richard Currie's family donated millions for a new human kinetics facility on campus that bears his name. That money could have been better spent on a fund that provides scholarships to students, alleviating their debt, and helping both the provincial and federal governments avoid loans that may not be paid back. New Brunswick students don't necessarily stay in the province to go to school, so other colleges and universities could use more of these kinds of scholarships and grants that can only come from private investment in them.

[cybercoma]

You mean people don't understand the difference between "loan" and "grant"?

They understand just fine, but when you're told to go to University and get an education because it will make you more employable. When you've grown up being told that you could have any job you want, if you go to university, well, you're willing to take on loans in the hopes that graduating means work.

Graduating doesn't mean work though. While at the same time, baby boomers who should be retiring want to stay on the job longer and not make room for new people. Add to that the ridiculous complaints that new graduates have a sense of "entitlement" and you have an atmosphere where people are taking loans expecting to work then not getting jobs. You're god damned right they're "entitled." They've been told that this will earn them more money and that they'll be able to pay off the loans no problem. They do all the "right" things and they still can't find a job. That's frustrating. Now they're saddled with debt they can't pay off.

[Accountability Now]

What New Brunswick needs is a national strategy for alleviating the jobs crisis in the region, but we are being ignored by Ottawa. The Maritimes delivered Harper his victory in 2006 and again in the following election. They're starting to tire of the promises of jobs and prosperity that never arrive. The Maritimes will go to Trudeau next election, almost certainly.

.

Is this more of your patented sarcasm? The Maritimes had 32 seats. In 2006 9 of those seats went to the Conservatives with 20 going to the Liberals. How on earth do you see this as "delivering" Harper a victory? Move onto 2008 where the Conservatives got one more seat (10) but still trailed the Liberals who had 17. In 2011 the Conservatives actually pushed ahead by one seat (14 versus 12) however the current standings show 13 each.

So please explain again how the Maritimes "delivered" Harper a victory. More importantly, explain why Harper should care about the promises made to the Maritimes when they've never outright supported him in the first place?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Accountability Now

[Shady]

Perhaps we need to start looking at the salaries of professors and faculty, as well as limiting the tuition hikes that seem to be an annual occurrence.

[havok]

Coming from someone who is both living in New Brunswick and going to school here, I can say that all the replies above are adequate and accurate.

I want to share a couple of things from a first hand experience to you guys:

1. I entered a Bachelor of Arts program directly after graduating High School - during this time, I felt enormous amounts of pressure from my schoolmates, teachers, guidance counselors and even my parents that University was the only suitable option.
2. Upon arriving to University in my first year, the government provided full coverage, no questions asked and even with my parents annual income attached to the loan application
3. The 2nd year of my 4 year program, the government provided roughly 25 percent of what it would've cost me to attend University (they provided roughly $6,000)
4. The amount of time it takes for my loan to be processed by the government and then sent to me is roughly between 4-8 weeks, even though they consistently say that it will only take 14 business days maximum whenever I call them
5. The people working the loan offices and the phone when I call have almost no intellectual skills and don't even get me started on their customer service skill because you might as well hand a cell phone to a chimp and tell him to squawk, it would be the same
6. The Maritimes did in fact deliver Harper's majority government to him in the recent election, regardless of what you think, the Maritimes have always swayed to the conservative side, check your facts, out of most recent 3 Premiers our province had has been PC. I understand the difference between Federal and Provincial elections but the ideology doesn't change between levels of government, that's for certain.
7. Alward has continued to promise jobs, so has Harper for the Eastern provinces but we have seen little to nothing being done. Our youth (including me) have no idea what we're going to do when we graduate university, we won't be able to afford anything without borrowing more money from someone; right now it's looking very grim for our prospective youth.
8. Recently, Nova Scotia pushed through legislation that swiped interest on student loans for students who graduated at 2004 (I think that that's the cut off year, could be wrong) - why can't we do this?

Here's a rough run down of my coverage from Student Aid

• 1st Year University: Full coverage, no questions asked or re-assessing required
• 2nd Year University: $6,000 out of a total $15,000 cost for living, eating and tuition
• 3rd Year University: $3,000 out of a total of $9,000 for living and tuition
• 4th Year University: $1,500 out of a total of $9,000 for living and tuition

Note: 3rd and 4th year I moved off of campus and got a house which reduced the cost but also the funding.

Thanks for such great, informative, replies guys.

[Accountability Now]

[*]The Maritimes did in fact deliver Harper's majority government to him in the recent election, regardless of what you think, the Maritimes have always swayed to the conservative side, check your facts, out of most recent 3 Premiers our province had has been PC. I understand the difference between Federal and Provincial elections but the ideology doesn't change between levels of government, that's for certain.

Perhaps you don't understand basic math. In 2011 the Conservatives got 166 seats which have them a majority by 24 seats. You could take all those 14 seats the Conservatives won in the Maritimes and give them to any other party and the majority would stand.

The Maritimes delivered nothing. In fact they gave the Liberals 12 of the 34 of all Liberal seats across Canada. If anything they were neutral

[cybercoma]

Perhaps we need to start looking at the salaries of professors and faculty, as well as limiting the tuition hikes that seem to be an annual occurrence.

Tuition hikes have already been limited and the salaries of the professors at the universities in New Brunswick are not on par with the group of 14 universities that are used for wage and benefit comparisons.

[cybercoma]

Perhaps you don't understand basic math. In 2011 the Conservatives got 166 seats which have them a majority by 24 seats. You could take all those 14 seats the Conservatives won in the Maritimes and give them to any other party and the majority would stand.

The Maritimes delivered nothing. In fact they gave the Liberals 12 of the 34 of all Liberal seats across Canada. If anything they were neutral

Invariably, if the Conservatives do well in the Maritimes, they take the federal election. They're the first polls that close and they've consistently predicted what will happen the rest of election night. You can go back to news reports from 2006 and again in 2008 and see the pundits saying the same thing. Regardless, you're nitpicking a minor point that is barely irrelevant to the OP, just for the sake of being argumentative.

[cybercoma]

The fact that remains is that the jobs crisis in the Maritimes is a matter of national interest. Harper's strategy was to screw with people's insurance benefits so they would have to move out West as cheap labour, instead of actually developing a national strategy to address his government's failure to create jobs for an entire region of this country. Who cares how the votes go. It's the Government of Canada, not the Government of Conservative Voters.

Edited August 18, 2014 by cybercoma

[overthere]

what a load of entitled twaddle.

every person who chooses to go to university is an adult. You also have to be an adult to get a loan, sign a contract. It's an IQ test of sorts and it appeas some fail it early. Harper and Trudeau cannot guarantee anybodys future livelihood. If there are no jobs in NB, move.

[overthere]

The fact that remains is that the jobs crisis in the Maritimes is a matter of national interest. Harper's strategy was to screw with people's insurance benefits so they would have to move out West as cheap labour, instead of actually developing a national strategy to address his government's failure to create jobs for an entire region of this country. Who cares how the votes go. It's the Government of Canada, not the Government of Conservative Voters.

That is one of the worst posts ever made here.

Luckily the many thousands of energetic Maritimers who have moved West and found decent jobs would laugh you off.

[Smallc]

The fact that remains is that the jobs crisis in the Maritimes is a matter of national interest. Harper's strategy was to screw with people's insurance benefits so they would have to move out West as cheap labour, instead of actually developing a national strategy to address his government's failure to create jobs for an entire region of this country. Who cares how the votes go. It's the Government of Canada, not the Government of Conservative Voters.

Those insurance benefits are nothing but the rest of us paying the salaries of people who sit on their rears for about half the year. I'm happy to see them changed.

[Shady]

Tuition hikes have already been limited and the salaries of the professors at the universities in New Brunswick are not on par with the group of 14 universities that are used for wage and benefit comparisons.

If those 14 universities don't have the same tuition limits, than comparing their salaries are meaningless. What are NB limits? Perhaps we need to start capping and cutting extreme salaries then. If universities could only charge what students could afford, then tuition would be much much lower. But they can get away with charging more, because of the public tax subsidy industrial complex that's tied to education.

[Boges]

Perhaps we need to start looking at the salaries of professors and faculty, as well as limiting the tuition hikes that seem to be an annual occurrence.

This.

Government regulated universities can allow the price of post secondary education to increase exponentially. And the response isn't to target that but also give students more subsidies and loans. So the taxpayer gets dinged twice.

[Accountability Now]

Invariably, if the Conservatives do well in the Maritimes, they take the federal election. They're the first polls that close and they've consistently predicted what will happen the rest of election night. You can go back to news reports from 2006 and again in 2008 and see the pundits saying the same thing.

IF the Conservatives do well in the Maritimes???? In 2006 they had 9 of 32 seats and 10 of 32 in 2011. You call this 'doing well'??? How on earth can anyone predict the other 276 seats especially when only 28% went to the Convervatives? What a load of crap you are feeding here. The best Harper has done in the Maritimes is slightly better than a tie with the Liberals but you keep saying they are doing well? Of course, don't let the hard numbers get in the way of your issues.

Regardless, you're nitpicking a minor point that is barely irrelevant to the OP, just for the sake of being argumentative.

LOL. Its your point. One that is severely flawed if not outright incorrect. Yet you choose to purpot this point to play out your victim card of the nasty Harper government's evil plot to ruin the Maritimes. Ironic....don't see people in Newfoundland having these issues.

The fact that remains is that the jobs crisis in the Maritimes is a matter of national interest. Harper's strategy was to screw with people's insurance benefits so they would have to move out West as cheap labour, instead of actually developing a national strategy to address his government's failure to create jobs for an entire region of this country. Who cares how the votes go. It's the Government of Canada, not the Government of Conservative Voters.

The lack of economic sustainability has been an issue in the Maritimes for ever. It was actually because of the Martimes that the Equalization Program was created....but yet you are now saying this is Harper's fault? LOL. I'm hoping you were at least consistent and blamed it on Martin and Cretien and Mulrooney and so on....

A formal system of equalization payments was first introduced in 1957. The idea was based on the proposals of American economist James M. Buchanan and they were introduced mainly to help the struggling Atlantic provinces who were seeing low rates of growth and high rate of emigration to central Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada

[cybercoma]

what a load of entitled twaddle.

every person who chooses to go to university is an adult. You also have to be an adult to get a loan, sign a contract. It's an IQ test of sorts and it appeas some fail it early. Harper and Trudeau cannot guarantee anybodys future livelihood. If there are no jobs in NB, move.

So the 17 year olds starting their first year of university are adults now, are they?

[cybercoma]

That is one of the worst posts ever made here.

Luckily the many thousands of energetic Maritimers who have moved West and found decent jobs would laugh you off.

And how does that help the Maritime government pay for roads, schools, and hospitals? How does people getting jobs out West help pay for the MLAs and other public service in the Maritime provinces? How does the working age population moving out West help support the aging population in the Maritimes? But then you're the first one to cry into your beer about transfer payments.

[cybercoma]

If those 14 universities don't have the same tuition limits, than comparing their salaries are meaningless. What are NB limits? Perhaps we need to start capping and cutting extreme salaries then. If universities could only charge what students could afford, then tuition would be much much lower. But they can get away with charging more, because of the public tax subsidy industrial complex that's tied to education.

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of how academic jobs work, yet have no problem giving uneducated suggestions about how things should operate.

Edited August 18, 2014 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

IF the Conservatives do well in the Maritimes???? In 2006 they had 9 of 32 seats and 10 of 32 in 2011. You call this 'doing well'??? How on earth can anyone predict the other 276 seats especially when only 28% went to the Convervatives? What a load of crap you are feeding here. The best Harper has done in the Maritimes is slightly better than a tie with the Liberals but you keep saying they are doing well? Of course, don't let the hard numbers get in the way of your issues.

LOL. Its your point. One that is severely flawed if not outright incorrect. Yet you choose to purpot this point to play out your victim card of the nasty Harper government's evil plot to ruin the Maritimes. Ironic....don't see people in Newfoundland having these issues.

The lack of economic sustainability has been an issue in the Maritimes for ever. It was actually because of the Martimes that the Equalization Program was created....but yet you are now saying this is Harper's fault? LOL. I'm hoping you were at least consistent and blamed it on Martin and Cretien and Mulrooney and so on....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada

Again, this was better than they did in previous elections. They picked up seats in the Maritimes. That was doing well.

And again, you're nitpicking a useless aside that has nothing to do with the OP because you just want to be argumentative just to be a nuisance.

[Accountability Now]

Again, this was better than they did in previous elections. They picked up seats in the Maritimes. That was doing well.

And again, you're nitpicking a useless aside that has nothing to do with the OP because you just want to be argumentative just to be a nuisance.

That was doing well? I sure hope your other Maritime folks don't set the bar so low.

I responded directly to your post as you provided a statement that was flat out incorrect. Of course you consider it a nuisance when others show you the error in your way simply because it doesn't allow you to play the victim card that you're so good at throwing down.

If you don't want people on this forum to call you out for stupid things you say then don't say them. Very simple.

[Bob Macadoo]

That was doing well? I sure hope your other Maritime folks don't set the bar so low.

I responded directly to your post as you provided a statement that was flat out incorrect. Of course you consider it a nuisance when others show you the error in your way simply because it doesn't allow you to play the victim card that you're so good at throwing down.

If you don't want people on this forum to call you out for stupid things you say then don't say them. Very simple.

I usually find it annoying when in conversation with someone they focus on subsidiary comments because they have no thoughts on the primary discussion but have to say something as they love the sound of their own voice. Food for thought.

[Accountability Now]

I usually find it annoying when in conversation with someone they focus on subsidiary comments because they have no thoughts on the primary discussion but have to say something as they love the sound of their own voice. Food for thought.

Good for you Bob. I particularily don't like when people used erroneous statements to back up their self serving propoganda. This one in particular was fairly easy as the numbers don't lie. Cyber could have easily acknowledged that the numbers don't back up his claim but chose not to. With that said, this is your first post on this thread so I guess you weren't really "IN" on the conversation so pardon me if I total disregard what you have to say unless you have something interesting to add about the apparent National Strategy that Cyber thinks is being overlooked by those dirty Conservatives.

Speaking of conversations though....you never did answer my simple question on the Trudeau thread about how the Transparency bill is embarrassing the FN. Perhaps you have nothing to add at all to this forum other than your drive by food for thought?

[overthere]

So the 17 year olds starting their first year of university are adults now, are they?

at 18 they are able to sign contracts. Entering uni is not like choosing a play school. You are choosing a future. If you don't know what you're doing, don't go.