Ferguson unrest

[Shady]

One in every 15 black males in in prison compared to one in every 106 white men. One in three black males can expect to spend some time in prison in their lifetime.

OK: what is the ultimate reason?

1 in 15 for drug reasons? Or just in general?

Regardless, the disintegration of the black family started long before any war on drugs. And lack of access to good education has to do more with the lack of school choice.

[Shady]

Once again, let me explain, the NYPD changed their policy because it caused too many deaths. AND, it also became illegal. Please understand there is a difference between a policy and a law.

Yes there is, but also understand the difference between privileges bestowed on members of law enforcement versus civilians.

Can you explain this then?

WASHINGTON -- Members of the New York City Council are weighing a number of bills that could change the way police treat civilians like Eric Garner, an unarmed black man who died shortly after he was forced to the ground and put in a chokehold by a New York City police officer in July. A grand jury voted not to indict the officer on Wednesday.

One bill, introduced by Councilman Rory Lancman last month, makes it illegal to use a chokehold that "limits or cuts off either the flow of air by compressing the windpipe, or the flow of blood." The legislation would make such a chokehold a misdemeanor crime punishable by imprisonment of up to a year, a fine up to $2,500, or both. Currently, the New York City Police Department has a departmental policy that prohibits chokeholds, but this legislation would go further by imposing legal penalties.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/this-legislation-could-st_n_6264938.html

[cybercoma]

Not just drugs, but the war on drugs, which led to mass incarceration of black fathers and mothers.

That's an answer only if you ignore the fact that a greater proportion of white people use and abuse drugs and alcohols than black people. Amazing that we blame their incarceration as a consequence of their drug use, but white's a more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol yet aren't even remotely served as harshly for their abuse.

Frankly, drug abuse is a medical problem and needs to stop being treated as a crime.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-likely-to-abuse-drugs-than-blacks/

[Black Dog]

1 in 15 for drug reasons? Or just in general?

IIRC, 60 per cent of people in prison in the U.S. are there for drug or property offences.

Also, "drug reasons" might not include drug offenses, but property crimes and even violent crimes.

Regardless, the disintegration of the black family started long before any war on drugs.

Well, there was that whole slavery thing which really did a number on the black nuclear family.

But yes, it was indeed an issue as far back as the mid 1960s, but the war on drugs certainly made it and other social problems, much much worse.

And lack of access to good education has to do more with the lack of school choice.

And what's the cause of that?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Black Dog

[bush_cheney2004]

Wow....who knew that illicit drug trafficking, robbery, car jacking, murder, burglary, home invasion, and tax evasion are only "medical problems" ? The poor misunderstood criminals just need more hugs !

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes there is, but also understand the difference between privileges bestowed on members of law enforcement versus civilians.

Can you explain this then?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/this-legislation-could-st_n_6264938.html

If cops get away with breaking the law, then that's up to the GJ's, courts etc. The fact the choke hold is illegal is quite clear. I have posted the link. If you don't bother reading it, that's your problem.

[GostHacked]

Then why did the NYPD just recently change their policy? Smallc is exactly right. Just like cops are allowed to speed in certain circumstances. Doesn't mean I can speed.

They are also allowed to lie to you and no repercussions to framing you for something you did not do.

[GostHacked]

Yes there is, but also understand the difference between privileges bestowed on members of law enforcement versus civilians.

Can you explain this then?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/this-legislation-could-st_n_6264938.html

From your article "WASHINGTON -- Members of the New York City Council are weighing a number of bills that could change the way police treat civilians like Eric Garner, an unarmed black man who died shortly after he was forced to the ground and put in a chokehold by a New York City police officer in July. A grand jury voted not to indict the officer on Wednesday."

Garner was in a chokehold before he was forced to the ground. I think that is important when talking about excessive force. Why not use a taser on him?

[Shady]

If cops get away with breaking the law, then that's up to the GJ's, courts etc. The fact the choke hold is illegal is quite clear. I have posted the link. If you don't bother reading it, that's your problem.

Yes your link with the disclaimer that not all of the information posted may be accurate. How about linking to an actual New York government website citing the law? If what you say is true, than why are there member of the New York government trying to pass a law making choke holds illegal? Something doesn't add up here.

[Shady]

From your article "WASHINGTON -- Members of the New York City Council are weighing a number of bills that could change the way police treat civilians like Eric Garner, an unarmed black man who died shortly after he was forced to the ground and put in a chokehold by a New York City police officer in July. A grand jury voted not to indict the officer on Wednesday."

Garner was in a chokehold before he was forced to the ground. I think that is important when talking about excessive force. Why not use a taser on him?

I agree a taser would have probably been a better idea, but with his health problems, who's to say being taser wouldn't have killed him as well? Do we have to revisit the Vancouver airport incident?

[GostHacked]

I am wondering how long and how wide spread these protests can get. The media is really pushing to get some kind of race war started.

[GostHacked]

I agree a taser would have probably been a better idea, but with his health problems, who's to say being taser wouldn't have killed him as well? Do we have to revisit the Vancouver airport incident?

Then it also shows that police cannot properly assess a situation. They need more training, AND some of them need to be fired.

[Shady]

Then it also shows that police cannot properly assess a situation. They need more training, AND some of them need to be fired.

How should it have been assessed? If they can't use physical force, or a taser, what are they suppose to do when confronting somebody resisting arrest?

[jbg]

How should it have been assessed? If they can't use physical force, or a taser, what are they suppose to do when confronting somebody resisting arrest?

Hand them a gun or at least a machete and equalize the terms of combat, so police and perpetrators are on equal terms.

[GostHacked]

How should it have been assessed? If they can't use physical force, or a taser, what are they suppose to do when confronting somebody resisting arrest?

Ask the cop who shot that 12 year old that had a toy gun. Only assessment was to shoot and kill. For every 'Brown' or 'Garner' (aka thief, thug, ect ect) there are a dozen other incidents of exessive force resulting in death or serious injury from a cop.

I showed the clip where the cop shot the man COMPLYING with his orders to see his license. But as soon as he goes to get it, he gets shot anyways. All while the cop blamed him for not complying. You see the issue here? These incidents don't need to happen.

[GostHacked]

The establishment does not want you to protest.

[jbg]

I showed the clip where the cop shot the man COMPLYING with his orders to see his license. But as soon as he goes to get it, he gets shot anyways.

I'll repeat myself but it bears repetition. On September 11, 2001, a week after the planes hit the buildings, I wsa ticketed on the New York State Thruway for exceeding the 65 mph speed limit. Officers were understandably a bit jumpy then. The registration happened to be in the glove compartment. I thus told the officer, calmly, why I was reaching into the glove compartment. I did not want to get shot.

I believe demeanor and temperament count as much as actions.

That being said we do have a problem with having a perpetual underclass in our society. I agree with the tenor of the posts. That must change.

[jbg]

The establishment does not want you to protest.

These "demonstrations," especially ones that inconvenience the public, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that creating monstrous traffic jams will really convince a lot of people to support reform of abusive policing. Are uninvolved people stuck in traffic jams really likely to agree with the cause?

[Black Dog]

Ask the cop who shot that 12 year old that had a toy gun. Only assessment was to shoot and kill. For every 'Brown' or 'Garner' (aka thief, thug, ect ect) there are a dozen other incidents of exessive force resulting in death or serious injury from a cop.

I showed the clip where the cop shot the man COMPLYING with his orders to see his license. But as soon as he goes to get it, he gets shot anyways. All while the cop blamed him for not complying. You see the issue here? These incidents don't need to happen.

Or the guy in New Jersey who was recently acquitted after video evidence the cops tried to suppress showed them beating his ass without provocation while shouting "stop resisting."

How should it have been assessed?

What reason was there at that instant to use physical force on Garner? Why was it even necessary to take him into custody for such a trivial offense? The issue appears to be that cops, whether as part of their training or just something hardwired into their tiny pig brains, seldom attempt to deescalate these situations, preferring to roll up with (metaphorical, but sometimes literal) guns blazing.

If they can't use physical force, or a taser, what are they suppose to do when confronting somebody resisting arrest?[/size]

Who said they can't? What seems to be clear is that the ability to assess when it's appropriate to use such measures or even deadly force is often lacking.

[GostHacked]

I'll repeat myself but it bears repetition. On September 11, 2001, a week after the planes hit the buildings, I wsa ticketed on the New York State Thruway for exceeding the 65 mph speed limit. Officers were understandably a bit jumpy then. The registration happened to be in the glove compartment. I thus told the officer, calmly, why I was reaching into the glove compartment. I did not want to get shot.

That is part of my point, you were SCARED to get shot by a cop when he is demanding your ID. He treated YOU like a suspected terrorists and not an American citizen.

More examples of why things need to change with the police.....

[Black Dog]

These "demonstrations," especially ones that inconvenience the public, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that creating monstrous traffic jams will really convince a lot of people to support reform of abusive policing. Are uninvolved people stuck in traffic jams really likely to agree with the cause?

jbg, on 17 Dec 1773 said:

These "demonstrations," especially ones that damage private property, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that throwing a bunch of tea into the harbor will really convince a lot of people to support reform of continental tax policy. Are uninvolved people who don't get their tea really likely to agree with the cause?

jbg, on 8 March 1965 said:

These "demonstrations," especially ones that inconvenience the public, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that creating monstrous traffic jams will really convince a lot of people to support civil rights. Are uninvolved people stuck in traffic jams between Selma and Montgomery really likely to agree with the cause?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Black Dog

[GostHacked]

If a cop screws up it can and has resulted in death. But that is chalked up to the cop making a 'mistake'. If I screw up on my job, it's not going to result in someone's death.

[Argus]

1 in 15 for drug reasons? Or just in general?

Regardless, the disintegration of the black family started long before any war on drugs. And lack of access to good education has to do more with the lack of school choice.

You think the parents who live in slums have a lot of good choices for schools?

[Argus]

Well, there was that whole slavery thing which really did a number on the black nuclear family.

The Black nuclear family was fine in the forties and fifties. Edited December 8, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

I am wondering how long and how wide spread these protests can get. The media is really pushing to get some kind of race war started.

Think of the ratings!!