Fraser Institute: Canadians are paying more in taxes

[Topaz]

The Fraser Institute is out with a report on the taxes have/are paying since 1961-2014 and its increase to 1832% of which 1375% for housing, 620% for clothing, 546% for food. The average Canadian earned $77,381 and paid out 32,369. in taxes. I don't think most of Canadians make the 77,381, unless, they are out west in the gas and oil or is a professional like doctors, lawyers, etc. So, it seems the Liberals, the PC's and the Conservatives have been raising taxes, federally but don't we all know that?? So when they say they are cutting taxes, they cut small in one area and double in another. Thoughts? https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/canadians-spend-more-taxes-basic-needs-report-103743076.html

[scribblet]

I suppose with higher incomes income taxes are naturally higher and this report does go back to 1961. According to many reports the CPC have cut taxes a lot, and according to a pretty vicious article in the Star last year, they cut way too much.

Canada’s budget watchdog says Canadians are paying Ottawa about $30-billion less this year – or a little less than $1,000 per person – due to tax changes introduced in the past decade.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer calculates in a new report that personal income taxes have been cut by about $17.1-billion through a variety of changes introduced since 2005.

Despite some criticism in this area, the PBO says the lion’s share of the tax savings have gone to low middle income earners – households with incomes between $12,200 and $23,000.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/money-economy/federal-tax-cuts-since-2005-net-canadians-30-billion/

[TimG]

I don't think most of Canadians make the 77,381, unless, they are out west in the gas and oil or is a professional like doctors, lawyers, etc.

The report says "family" so that 77K is from at least 2 incomes.

[Argus]

The Ontario government imposed a new 'wealth' tax three years ago for those earning more than $500,000 a year. The next year they dropped it to $300,000. This year they dropped it to $150,000. And then they refused to have it scaled to inflation. That means that every year, inflation would bring more and more people into the tax bracket where the additional new tax will apply. This is how the municipal and provincial governments are taking more and more of our money, often by stealth. Refusing to scale tax rates with inflation is something a number of provinces have been doing lately in order to raise taxes by stealth.

[Black Dog]

The Fraser Institute is out with a report on the taxes have/are paying since 1961-2014 and its increase to 1832% of which 1375% for housing, 620% for clothing, 546% for food. The average Canadian earned $77,381 and paid out 32,369. in taxes. I don't think most of Canadians make the 77,381, unless, they are out west in the gas and oil or is a professional like doctors, lawyers, etc. So, it seems the Liberals, the PC's and the Conservatives have been raising taxes, federally but don't we all know that?? So when they say they are cutting taxes, they cut small in one area and double in another. Thoughts? https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/canadians-spend-more-taxes-basic-needs-report-103743076.html

A few points on this bogus report:

• The top line figure (1832%) is not in real dollars. The actual, inflation-adjusted figure is 143.5%. Just a little bit less, eh?
• Choosing 1961 as a jump off is...interesting. That was the year medicare and the CPP were introduced, which would account for a good chunk of the subsequent increases. What other services are we receiving now that we weren't in the early 60s?
• What do they mean by taxes anyway? Their breakdown includes "profit taxes," "natural resource taxes," and "import taxes" that I'm pretty sure most regular families don't pay.

[ReeferMadness]

A few points on this bogus report:

• The top line figure (1832%) is not in real dollars. The actual, inflation-adjusted figure is 143.5%. Just a little bit less, eh?
• Choosing 1961 as a jump off is...interesting. That was the year medicare and the CPP were introduced, which would account for a good chunk of the subsequent increases. What other services are we receiving now that we weren't in the early 60s?
• What do they mean by taxes anyway? Their breakdown includes "profit taxes," "natural resource taxes," and "import taxes" that I'm pretty sure most regular families don't pay.

Yes, the FI has a rich history of having fun with math when it comes to tax calculations. For example, there is a reference to deficits as 'deferred taxes'. Unless the Institute is prepared to disclose raw numbers and calculations, the ideological claptrap they produce isn't even worth discussing.

[TimG]

Their breakdown includes "profit taxes," "natural resource taxes," and "import taxes" that I'm pretty sure most regular families don't pay.

Not directly - but they are factored into the cost of goods. The biggest problem with most tax analyses from left wing outfits is they pretend that taxes paid by businesses have no impact on what goods and services cost.

[Black Dog]

Not directly - but they are factored into the cost of goods.

Right...but they already have taxes paid on goods listed as a separate item. How do we know they aren't double counting? (We don't).

The biggest problem with most tax analyses from left wing outfits is they pretend that taxes paid by businesses have no impact on what goods and services cost.

Example?

[YellowDucky]

(FYI I posted this as a new topic, not realizing that this one already existed, and the mods moved it here. Clearly, the points I am making are made by others above)

There has been a lot of coverage over the last two days about the Fraser Institute's recent study showing that the "average Canadian family" now pays more in taxes than it does for housing, food and clothing combined.

The more right-wing press is expressing outrage at this finding, and the FI is definitely spinning it that way in their press releases, but looking at the actual data in the study might give people a different perspective. It is very easy to read, so there is no reason not to have a peek yourself if the topic interests you.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/canadian-consumer-tax-index-2014.pdf

Just a few points I will make:

1. Perhaps not surprisingly, the FI calculates "total family tax" in the most inflated manner possible, including not just income tax, sales taxes, etc.but also for instance taxes *corporations* pay on profits (arguing that ultimately consumers pay for this. So, I guess it follows that anytime a business makes money they pass the savings right on to their customers! That's the invisible hand of the free market, right?)

2. What the report really documents is a success story. Spending on the "necessities of life" (housing, food, clothing) has decreased from about 57% of family cash income in 1961 to just 36% today. That means (a lot) more disposable income for other things. As an agriculturalist I am happy to note that the biggest success is in food costs, which have declined from about 25% of family income to just over 10% over the same period.

3. By contrast, the average family's tax bill has risen from 34 to 42% of their income (again, calculated in the most inflated manner conceivable). So, we spend 21% less of our income on necessities, but 8% more of our income on taxes. Where the report is silent is the issue of what services are being provided with those extra taxes. For example, in 1961 there was no universal single-payer health care in Canada. Also, what fraction of the population was attending publically-funded post secondary education in 1961? Was government regulation of things like environmental protection and food safety at a level we would consider appropriate today? And finally, if the cost of life's necessities has fallen so drastically as a percentage of our income, can't we *afford* to contribute a bit more to the collective effort of building a fair and supportive society?

Just my two cents. Read it for yourself and see what you think.

Edited August 13, 2014 by YellowDucky

[TimG]

Right...but they already have taxes paid on goods listed as a separate item. How do we know they aren't double counting? (We don't).

A fair criticism. I don't have enough interest in the numbers to bother to find out.

Example?

It is problem I have noticed CCPA reports in the past. I can't give you an exact reference. Edited August 13, 2014 by TimG