Canadian Gun Owners Get A Break

[overthere]

New gun laws will have the same effect that the old ones had: very little.

Many, many guns have never been registered or documented in any way and that will continue.

[Derek 2.0]

Those statements that I used in that post came from ; Thomas Jefferson, Robert Heinlein, Jeff Cooper, James Madison, George Orwell and Charlton Heston. I believe that they are all adults.

I'm well aware of those quotes.....

Any issue or any opinion on an issue is just as serious as one wants it to be.

Certainly, but if you expect discourse between those with differing opinions, mocking one party of said discussion will only further the divide.

Personally, I find the way that our governments have handled this issue is a joke. Any time our elected reps allow political dogma to over ride citizen safety is a joke.

How would any of these proposed changes erode public safety? In actual fact, the proposed legislation will increase public safety.

[The_Squid]

New gun laws will have the same effect that the old ones had: very little.

Many, many guns have never been registered or documented in any way and that will continue.

Except we can see the results of lax gun laws just south of us. Leads to more deaths by guns.

So the old gun laws have actually had huge positive effects.

If it isn't the gun laws having an effect, what do you think accounts for the difference in gun deaths between the two countries?

[guyser]

If it isn't the gun laws having an effect, what do you think accounts for the difference in gun deaths between the two countries?

Culture. Always has been , always will be.

Laws will have very little effect on this. For one, they are not pursued vigorously. For two, we cannot afford to.

Culture.

When that changes , so too will the harm from guns.

[overthere]

Except we can see the results of lax gun laws just south of us. Leads to more deaths by guns.

So the old gun laws have actually had huge positive effects.

If it isn't the gun laws having an effect, what do you think accounts for the difference in gun deaths between the two countries?

I wasn't commenting on that.

I'm not comparing Canada to the US, which is a curiously relentless fixation here and elsewhere in Canada.

I'm noting that in Canada there was widespread civil and criminal disobedience of gun laws before the gun registry fiasco, during the gun registry fiasco, after the fiasco, and it will continue now with or without new laws.

Normally law abiding people often ignore laws they see as pointless and/or arbitrary and/or an intrusion into their lives to no purpose. That is the case in Canada with control of long guns. Far too many people simply say **** it, I'm not paying anything to justify owning a tool that has been in a gun cabinet for generations.

[Derek 2.0]

Culture. Always has been , always will be.

Laws will have very little effect on this. For one, they are not pursued vigorously. For two, we cannot afford to.

Culture.

When that changes , so too will the harm from guns.

Well said……..Guns are after all a benign object…..They aren’t good or bad natured, they don’t suffer from social economic stress that cause crime, they aren’t subjected to chemical imbalances that cause mental illness nor are they inherently unsafe.

[The_Squid]

Culture. Always has been , always will be.

Laws will have very little effect on this. For one, they are not pursued vigorously. For two, we cannot afford to.

Culture.

When that changes , so too will the harm from guns.

I disagree... our cultures are not that different. What is different between the USA and most western countries is gun control laws. Hence the difference in gun death rates.

[Wilber]

Well said……..Guns are after all a benign object…..They aren’t good or bad natured, they don’t suffer from social economic stress that cause crime, they aren’t subjected to chemical imbalances that cause mental illness nor are they inherently unsafe.

The same can be said for motor vehicles and other things we regulate. Aside from safety and emissions standards during manufacture, we regulate who can own and operate them and the behaviour of those who do.

[Derek 2.0]

The same can be said for motor vehicles and other things we regulate. Aside from safety and emissions standards during manufacture, we regulate who can own and operate them and the behaviour of those who do.

As we do with Firearms within Canada.....and rightly so.

[Wilber]

As we do with Firearms within Canada.....and rightly so.

I just don't buy the benign object argument. There are a myriad of things that are benign until humans mess with them.

[Derek 2.0]

I just don't buy the benign object argument. There are a myriad of things that are benign until humans mess with them.

But that's the point.....human interaction.

[On Guard for Thee]

I would have to say I think it is a combination of both gun laws AND culture that keep our gun death laws so much lower than the US. Outside of war zones, I have seen two people get shot in my day and both of them were in Florida, were at the time anyway, getting a gun was as easy as getting a 6 pack. Both of those incidents were apparently the outcomes of booze fuelled altercations that started in bars, one of which apparently had something to do with a woman, and ended up with one of them heading off to get a gun and returning to end the argument. Having laws that require a bit of a "cooling off" period could prevent those types of shootings.

And as to culture, I have worked and travelled in Canada from coast to coast to coast and there are certainly guns around. People all over head off in hunting season to bag something for the freezer, farmers pick off "varmints" and others do target practice. But I have never encountered the attitude in my travels were people felt they had to have a gun for their safety, unless perhaps from polar bears in certain areas, the way it seems to pervade American society. So I say let's keep both the laws and the culture and the relatively low gun death stats will also continue.

[cybercoma]

Plus if everyone was armed there would be no crime. America would be crime free by now if it wasn't for those hippies who refuse to carry one. Just ask Charlton Heston.

America would be crime free if it didn't have all of those illegal immigrants. Race mixing is the reason there's so much crime. Just look at all the countries that are racially pure. They have a lot less crime. It's a proven fact.

[cybercoma]

There already are Authorizations to Carry within the Firearms Act, the problem is that the Provincial CFOs sparingly issue them to only those that some would term “elitist”…..In Canada, if you’re of money, but more importantly political patronage, one is allowed to own firearms to protect their lives.

As to “open gun laws”, care to elaborate on what you mean?

Forget regulated authorizations. There should be no gun laws whatsoever. Laws just limit people's freedoms.

[Derek 2.0]

Forget regulated authorizations. There should be no gun laws whatsoever. Laws just limit people's freedoms.

There are certainly those, within both Canada and the United States, that share those beliefs.

[Derek 2.0]

Why arbitrary magazine restrictions, proposed by those that know little to nothing about guns, don’t work:

Edited July 27, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[cybercoma]

I'm not sure why people can't own grenades. I mean, they're really cool and I'd like to collect them. We should have grenade ranges where hard-working and responsible Canadians can go to lob some grenades. I should also be able to protect my home and my property from intruders by lobbing grenades into my yard from the attic. The government doesn't want an educated and well-armed public that knows how to defend itself because they're afraid that we will fight back to defend our values and morals, as they work to undermine them by giving rights to gays, prostitutes, and criminals.

Edited July 27, 2014 by cybercoma

[Derek 2.0]

I'm not sure why people can't own grenades. I mean, they're really cool and I'd like to collect them. We should have grenade ranges where hard-working and responsible Canadians can go to lob some grenades. I should also be able to protect my home and my property from intruders by lobbing grenades into my yard from the attic. The government doesn't want an educated and well-armed public that knows how to defend itself because they're afraid that we will fight back to defend our values and morals, as they work to undermine them by giving rights to gays, prostitutes, and criminals.

In Canada (like the States) citizens can own grenades and grenade launchers etc…….whats regulated is the explosives, since they’re inherently unstable.

[kimmy]

Except we can see the results of lax gun laws just south of us. Leads to more deaths by guns.

So the old gun laws have actually had huge positive effects.

If it isn't the gun laws having an effect, what do you think accounts for the difference in gun deaths between the two countries?

The changes that are being introduced won't erode public safety. They're not going to make our gun laws "lax".

Getting rid of ATTs, for example, won't harm public safety. There's no plausible argument you could present to explain how ATTs reduce gun crime. Why have ATTs? They're just a time-wasting hoop for legal gun owners to jump through that criminals completely ignore.

-k

[cybercoma]

In Canada (like the States) citizens can own grenades and grenade launchers etc…….whats regulated is the explosives, since they’re inherently unstable.

So what? Our politicians are unstable too, but we don't ban them.

[On Guard for Thee]

In Canada (like the States) citizens can own grenades and grenade launchers etc…….whats regulated is the explosives, since they’re inherently unstable.

I think maybe you got sucked in there.

[Remiel]

Importing the poisonous gun culture from the US should be punishable by death, to use just a smidge of hyperbole. More seriously, culture and law do no live by the two row wampum: they intersect the hell out of each other. Substantially changing the direction of the laws will change the culture, guaranteed. And anyone with even half a brain can tell our culture will not draw change from somewhat more enlightened European examples, but from the macho gun culture of the US.

[Derek 2.0]

Importing the poisonous gun culture from the US should be punishable by death, to use just a smidge of hyperbole. More seriously, culture and law do no live by the two row wampum: they intersect the hell out of each other. Substantially changing the direction of the laws will change the culture, guaranteed. And anyone with even half a brain can tell our culture will not draw change from somewhat more enlightened European examples, but from the macho gun culture of the US.

What culture would you suggest would change? The Canadian gun culture has been a part of our National fabric long before Confederation……..

In addition, what aspects of the enlightened European culture do you pine for? Some of the best gun makers in the world hale from Europe.

[guyser]

What culture would you suggest would change? The Canadian gun culture has been a part of our National fabric long before Confederation……..

While that may be true, we have never had that American gun culture.

Thankfully .

[Derek 2.0]

While that may be true, we have never had that American gun culture.

Thankfully .

Though not exact, the American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand “gun cultures” certainly share similarities…………none the less, these proposed laws are not bringing us closer to “American style laws and culture”……….saying so is a demonstration in either ignorance or political fear mongering.