Scotty Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 Sorry buddy, not the first time that a police force in Canada has become politically active during an election campaign. It is the first time a police force has taken out advertising in a political campaign. I think the law against 3rd party advertising at the federal level needs to be extended to the provincial level. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 Correction: The Ontario Provincial Police Association - ie, the union. The OPP itself does not engage in politics. The union can and does lobby on behalf of members, though they can't on the job. It is somewhat remarkable though, especially going up against the tough-on-crime boys. . It is hypocrtical, but then, that is what unions are all about. And just as the teachers unions will scream about how it will harm education if they don't get big, fat raises, so too do the police unions claim that if their wages are frozen (Hudak has promised no job cuts) it will harm public safety. The wages of all new firefighters and police should be lowered by about one third. I'm not against reasonable compensation, but they've gotten ridiculous. Blue collar jobs which require little education, a minimum of training, no unique skillset and have no scarcity of applicants should not get six figure incomes. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Unless of course if they support the conservatives, then you wouldn't say anything. Just like all the other police forces that have supported the pc in the past! As far as I know only the Toronto police have supported candidates in the past, but that amounted to a press release, not an advertising campaign. That's a far cry from a TV ad where a uniformed OPP officer gets out of a marked OPP cruiser and tells the camera that the tories are a danger to public safety... Edited June 3, 2014 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
cybercoma Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 I respect the job police and firefighters do, but the salaries have simply gotten ridiculously out of wack. These are jobs which have long lines of eager applicants, so why are we paying such a premium? Why are we paying them so much more than their counterparts elsewhere in the world? Do you think the firefighters and police in England are incompetent compared to ours? They only earn about half as much, you know. No one's talking about cutting salaries here though. People are going to lose their jobs or not be replaced and others will have to pick up the difference on the same wages. In any case, people on this forum always complain about how much money other people make. Quote
guyser Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 What part of 'as far as I have been able to determine' do you not undrestand? I have looked for higher paid police and haven't found any. Perhaps you'll have getter luck.Boston...California....not that hard really Quote
Scotty Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) No one's talking about cutting salaries here though. People are going to lose their jobs or not be replaced and others will have to pick up the difference on the same wages. In any case, people on this forum always complain about how much money other people make. Hudak has insisted he will not cut any police jobs. The union is worried more about whether he will do as municipalities have been begging and rejigger the arbitration rules which have seen their salaries go sky high. That and a salary freeze. As for what salaries 'others' make. I consider it a public safety issue more than anything else. I don't resent police getting $100k. I resent the fact that in order to pay those huge salaries we have to have far fewer police (and firefighters). You could say the same about teachers. In order to afford those huge salaries we need to have fewer teachers with bigger classrooms. And all of it on borrowed money. Edited June 3, 2014 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
guyser Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) The Municipalites in ONtario are being crushed under the weight of the OPP costs. Some taxes are rising by as much as 27% to 50% Of course crime is way down.....and OPP costs are up. Yea...that makes sense. Hope Hudak has planned some of those 100,000 he wants reduced are cops. http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/03/14/municipalities_pushing_back_against_opp_costs.html Edited June 3, 2014 by Guyser2 Quote
Scotty Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Boston...California....not that hard really Boston poilice don't make as much as in Ontario. http://www1.salary.com/MA/Boston/police-officer-salary.html CHP and LAPD salaries are not quite up to par with the OPP, though I'll grant you they're in the same neighborhood. San Fransicio, however, seems to be in a class all by itself. Mabe it's that mentality, like they have in Seattle, which just declared a $15hr minimum wage, but SFPD have a ridiculous salary and benefit package. Not only is their top salary $112k but they get 90% of that for a pension. But I'd like to note that these are not indicative of the salaries paid to police in smaller California cities. The issue in Ontario is that the mandatory arbitration all municipalities are forced to make use of pegs the salaries their police get to the OPP. It doesn't matter if they're a small town cop or not, they still get the same high salaries, and that's without any regard to what the municipality can afford to pay. http://www1.salary.com/CA/police-officer-salary.html But in any case San Fransisco has a booming economy and a budget surplus. If it can afford such lavish salaries, then so be it. Ontario clearly can not. Edited June 3, 2014 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
overthere Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 Do you think the firefighters and police in England are incompetent compared to ours? They only earn about half as much, you know. Trus dat. The local police here(large force) actively recruit police in England and there are a fair number here now. They get veteran cops with a few years experience on the job and the retraining is minimal. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
The_Squid Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 What part of 'as far as I have been able to determine' do you not undrestand? I have looked for higher paid police and haven't found any. Perhaps you'll have getter luck. So nothing to back up your assertion... got it. Quote
Scotty Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) So nothing to back up your assertion... got it. Maybe you can help me out by informing me of a topic in which you contributed anything of subtance or value. You can skip this one, obviously. Edited June 3, 2014 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
The_Squid Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 Maybe you can help me out by informing me of a topic in which you contributed anything of subtance or value. You can skip this one, obviously. As can you.... making grandiose claims and not backing them up with any sort of evidence is rather silly. Quote
WWWTT Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 I would never support shit like this. And just imagine if it did happen with the RCMP, you would be the 1st screaming for heads to roll. And remember this is the 1st time it has happened. No it's not the first time this has ever happened! Police unions have been vocal many times! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 It is the first time a police force has taken out advertising in a political campaign. I think the law against 3rd party advertising at the federal level needs to be extended to the provincial level. Could be. But not the first time that the cops have taken sides. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 As far as I know only the Toronto police have supported candidates in the past, but that amounted to a press release, not an advertising campaign. That's a far cry from a TV ad where a uniformed OPP officer gets out of a marked OPP cruiser and tells the camera that the tories are a danger to public safety... I agree with the Toronto cops, but I believe the OPP have taken sides in the past as well. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
jacee Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 What stretch and it does not matter if it was command or not, these are police officers and they should keep their nose out of elections period.Hey ... it's a free country!Cops have freedom of speech too ... off the job. Hudak just made a huge calculation error, overestimating the number of jobs he can 'create' by a factor of 8. He says he's going to get rid of 100,000 public employees. Maybe his calculations are wrong again, and it'll be 800,000 layoffs! How do we know? Hudak doesn't even know what he's doing! Except that he's probably firing the staffer who made the "million jobs" error. . Quote
eyeball Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 No one's talking about cutting salaries here though. People are going to lose their jobs or not be replaced and others will have to pick up the difference on the same wages. In any case, people on this forum always complain about how much money other people make. Why shouldn't we be laying police off? Crime is falling everywhere and it's even being ignored in many places. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DFCaper Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 Correction: The Ontario Provincial Police Association - ie, the union. The OPP itself does not engage in politics. The union can and does lobby on behalf of members, though they can't on the job. It is somewhat remarkable though, especially going up against the tough-on-crime boys. . The Problem is the unions influence it's members as well. I know 4 kids that teachers sent the kids home with the message that the parents better not vote for the conservatives. This low life tactic has me tempted to switch from voting for the NDP to the Conservatives. The public sector unions have gone too far and need to be reined in. If I had a Conservative sign on my lawn, I would take it down prior to calling the police. My trust of police in this country is again finding a new low. Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
Argus Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 Why shouldn't we be laying police off? Crime is falling everywhere and it's even being ignored in many places. Canada already has a lot fewer police per pop than almost any other western nation. And it's debatable how much crime is actually falling, as opposed to police-reported crime. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
The_Squid Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 Canada already has a lot fewer police per pop than almost any other western nation. And it's debatable how much crime is actually falling, as opposed to police-reported crime. cite? Quote
WWWTT Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 Hudak has insisted he will not cut any police jobs. You're going to have to back this one up with a link. I clearly heard Hudack say that he will not guarantee that the police will not be touched! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 Canada already has a lot fewer police per pop than almost any other western nation. And it's debatable how much crime is actually falling, as opposed to police-reported crime. You're going to have to back up your claim here. Link required if you want to continue using this as a debating platform. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
PIK Posted June 5, 2014 Author Report Posted June 5, 2014 You're going to have to back this one up with a link. I clearly heard Hudack say that he will not guarantee that the police will not be touched! WWWTT Back it up then ,because I heard the opposite. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted June 5, 2014 Report Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) cite? Cite what? Canada's police per pop has consistently been under 200. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/legal05c-eng.htm France's police per pop is 356 Italy 549 Czech 459 Portugal 435 Greece 376 Belgium 357 Austria 328 Ireland 303 Sweden 280 US 243 Norway 233 http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Police-officers Edited June 5, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 5, 2014 Report Posted June 5, 2014 You're going to have to back up your claim here. Link required if you want to continue using this as a debating platform. WWWTT Are you for real!? LOL :lol: Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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